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万维读者网 > 彩虹之约 > 跟帖 感谢万维网友为5.12四川地震受难同胞奉献的爱  
有神论无神论都杀人,杀人不是因为相信某种理论,而是人的罪性!
送交者: 问号哥 2018月05月15日04:45:39 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
回  答: ZT:无神论的苦果《Atheism Kills》 新歌 于 2018-05-14 19:14:08

我没有时间对这样的研究进行详细考核,不过单就数量比较,中世纪人口少,现在人口多。那时候是冷兵器时代,现在的武器装备杀人更有效了。时间空间环境不同,这种比较的有效性很难评估。最后提一句,毛泽东不信神,希特勒并没有宣称过不信神,他有很强的宗教倾向。

在统计学上,你想论证两件事的因果关系,是一件很复杂的工作。我曾经举过一个好玩的例子,有一个地图上有男性生殖器平均长度的地域分布,另一个图是各种文化的地域分布。对比下来,非常非常明显的,在基督教文化圈内,信上帝的男人通常生殖器会长几公分。;-)

这个奇怪的统计学论断,是为了说明,且不说数据是否准确,即便这部《无神论kills》里面的数据完全准确,也无法说明任何问题。因为两个统计学上有关联的事件,很难说具有因果关系。有兴趣的人,可以去读读辛普森悖论(simpson's paradox)

新歌举的这本书并不是一份严格的科学报告,我举两份严肃的科学包括。一份是美国《宗教与社会》杂志上的一篇研究报告,这份报告的作者是社会科学家Gregory Paul,依据的数据来自蓋洛普统计、ISSP和其它研究机构,參考的指標包括謿⒙省櫶ヂ省⒆詺⒙省⒃缭猩倥壤取报告的结论是,美國是唯一高谋杀率的西方国家,并且越是不信耶稣的国家社会问题越少。以淋病为例,美國青少年的發病率是世俗化國家的300倍,美国的梅毒感染率、少女堕胎率也都远超其它西方国家。

还有一份是美国自然杂志446期的研究报告,题目是《旧约能诱发暴力行为》。请注意,我引用这两篇文章的目的,并不是证明基督教有多坏,而是证明数据和事实之间的差距会有多大。

Nature 446, 114-115 (8 March 2007) | doi:10.1038/446114b; Published online 7 March 2007

Scriptural violence can foster aggression
Heidi Ledford

Elements of religious texts seem to inspire bad behaviour

There once was a man and his concubine from the Israeli tribe of Ephraim who were travelling in the land of Benjamin, another Israeli tribe. As the couple dined in the city of Gibeah, a mob assembled outside and pounded on the door. The mob captured the concubine, then raped and beat her to death. The man collected her corpse the next day and travelled home. The other tribes of Israel were outraged at the crime, assembled an army and razed several Benjamite cities, killing every man, woman, child and animal they could.

Around 500 students recently read a version of this story, which is based on a passage from the Old Testament, as part of a psychological study. For half of the participants the tale contained an additional passage: when the man returned home, his tribe prayed to God and asked what they should do. God commanded the tribe to "take arms against their brothers and chasten them before the Lord".

After reading the story, the students participated in another exercise intended to measure aggression. About half of the study participants came from Brigham Young University, a religious university in Provo, Utah, and almost all were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The other half came from the Free University in Amsterdam. Only 50% of the Dutch group believed in God and 27% in the Bible. But for both groups — whether the students were based in the Netherlands or the United States, and believed in God or not — the trend was the same:those who were told that God had sanctioned the violence against the Israelite were more likely to act aggressively in the subsequent exercise.

The study is indicative of a growing interest among psychologists and sociologists in the origins of religious violence. That subject was taboo until recently for many psychologists, and past research tended to focus on the role of religion in psychological healing. But heightening concern about religious terrorism has pushed negative uses of religion to the forefront. "People often use God as a justification for committing violent acts," says Brad Bushman, a social psychologist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and lead author of the study. "And that just bothers me, I guess."

The results of Bushman's study, to be published in the March issue of Psychological Science, do not indicate that religious people are more aggressive than non-religious people (B. J. Bushman et al. Psychol. Sci. 18, 204–207; 2007). Furthermore, the story used was an isolated example of scriptural violence taken out of context, and thus does not reflect the experience of reading the Bible as a whole. But it does suggest that selective exposure to violent passages in a  scriptural canon can promote aggression.

If violence is presented as the authoritative voice of God, it can increase the possibility of more violence.

That response probably reflects a long-standing finding in psychology that people respond more aggressively to a depiction of violence that they feel is justified,
 says Robert Ridge, a social psychologist at Brigham Young University and a co-author of the study.

Sociologist Mark Juergensmeyer of the University of California, Santa Barbara, says his research has also pointed to the motivational power of scriptural violence, but that the context of the message is key. "If violence is presented as the authoritative voice of God, it can increase the possibility of more violence," says Juergensmeyer. "But everything depends on how it is presented." The same passage placed in a non-threatening, historical context might not promote aggression, he argues.

God's sanction can be a motivator for aggression
Nevertheless, when scriptural violence is used to promote hostility, it is extremely effective, Juergensmeyer adds. Invoking religious justification allows a political leader to believe in promises of immortality and spiritual rewards that can be powerful motivators. "Religion is not the problem," he says. "But it can make a secular problem worse."

People often choose to ignore the violent side to religion, says John Hall, a sociologist at the University of California, Davis, and they tend to dismiss those who commit religiously inspired violence as members of the fringe. "There are built-in cultural lenses that we use to dissociate religion from violence," he says. "When we see religious movements that are prophetically inspired and engaged in violence, there's a cultural tendency to say 'oh, they're not really religious'."

That view represents a misleading, selective interpretation of most religious canons, agrees theologian Hector Avalos of Iowa State University in Ames. "People who choose the violent interpretation are no less arbitrary than those who choose the peaceful one," he says. Avalos has proposed a radical solution to theologically inspired violence — cut the violent passages out of the scripture.

It's a wildly controversial idea that ought not to be, he says, because spiritual leaders effectively do that on a regular basis. "A lot of churches have a series of passages that they read during the year," says Avalos. "And usually they don't choose the passages involving genocide."


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      跟错贴了? - 问号哥 05/15/18 (32)
        没有,继续对你的只看杀人不管原因的论点驳斥, - 追求永生 05/15/18 (29)
          那是自然杂志的文章,人家做一篇研究而已嘛,肚量大一点吧! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (40)
            佛教本来就是把人麻醉后在虚假安乐中死亡,难道你能改变这实质? - 追求永生 05/15/18 (30)
              揭穿的前提是了解,我欢迎你揭穿,真的! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (40)
                佛教针对罪性,然而解决不了罪性 - ardmore 05/15/18 (34)
                  解决罪性依靠两条:里面的神性和外面的启示(经典) - 问号哥 05/16/18 (15)
                  还有:罪性的定义基督教与佛教不一样 - ardmore 05/15/18 (14)
                    基本一致。罪的表现形式都是以自我为中心。罪的根源都是背离神。 - 问号哥 05/16/18 (15)
                佛教是取死之道,不同处只是不同的取死之道 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (20)
                  这只是你的信仰前提下的结论,别忘了这世界并不只有一种前提! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (28)
                    在永死那一端,就是想象出再多选择,也依然是死。 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (17)
                    人生只有永生或者永生,这个没有那么多选择。  /无内容 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (21)
            你看到这些敌基督的文章很生气,这种生气里面没有爱! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (44)
              又来了,诡辩就是这个样子 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (26)
              又来了,诡辩就是你这个样子 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (20)
                你完全搞错了,永生弟兄,耐心点好吗? - 问号哥 05/15/18 (34)
                  你别来这套了行不?我跟你说的神的怒火,我对你的悖逆也算怒气 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (27)
            你这就是佛教式的典型诡辩了。 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (26)
              你愿意这么误解,我也不想多作解释。耶稣理解我。;-)  /无内容 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (32)
                神鉴查人心,基督徒与主一起审判堕落天使和不悔改的罪人 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (21)
        说话不能客气点吗?我不懂你可以纠正啊! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (45)
          问兄不是倡导不知道就是不知道吗?不知道乱说的似乎你最多 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (39)
            我最多吗?呵呵,言多必失。。 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (34)
              实质是,根基错了,动辄得咎。还有, - 追求永生 05/15/18 (38)
                我并非完全不知道,说西方文明发源于启蒙运动 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (44)
                  又是不知道随便说,沾边就敢那么肯定? - 追求永生 05/15/18 (26)
  帮个忙,谢谢你 - ardmore 05/15/18 (64)
      改错:愿意=原意  /无内容 - 追求永生 05/15/18 (10)
    抱歉,让其他弟兄姊妹找吧!  /无内容 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (23)
      呵呵  /无内容 - ardmore 05/15/18 (12)
          自私,固执己见,在佛法里是非常清晰的定义。 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (30)
          知之为知之,不知为不知,是知也! - 问号哥 05/15/18 (30)
            佛教名义有没有发动战争我不知道,但是战争不都是邪恶的。 - 新歌 05/15/18 (34)
              如果素食吃植物也算杀生,那也比肉食杀的植物少多了,据统计, - 仙遊野人 05/15/18 (16)
              看来你对佛教是真的不了解。。。 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (37)
                不杀生,吃肉。明白了,谢谢科普。  /无内容 - 新歌 05/15/18 (17)
                  主要是指不杀人,而且戒律有开遮持犯,比如说战争中。。 - 问号哥 05/15/18 (23)
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