设万维读者为首页 广告服务 技术服务 联系我们 关于万维
简体 繁体 手机版
分类广告
版主:奇异恩典
万维读者网 > 彩虹之约 > 跟帖
都发生在eternal past,你想说谁先?
送交者: 从上而生 2019月10月31日11:48:37 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
回  答: 异端搞出两个预定:预定子,预定人。再问阿古哪个先预定?👈repentant 于 2019-10-31 11:24:01

ZT:弗1:4“就如神从创立世界以前,在基督里拣选了我们”
送交者: 从上而生 2019年10月30日06:12:42 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话

1:4a–c Because he chose us in him before the foundation of the world (καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου). Throughout the remainder of this passage (1:4–14), Paul gives a series of reasons why God is so worthy to be praised. The first refers to God’s choosing of his people in eternity past.

The conjunction he uses to introduce this (καθώς) is often interpreted as a comparative adverb, its most common function: “just as he chose us …” (NASB; NRSV) or “even as he chose us …” (ESV). But it makes better contextual sense to take it as a causal conjunction (so the TNIV and NIV, which translate with “for”) and see it as giving the basis for the praise.6 The force of this “because” carries throughout 1:4–14 with the rest of the passage providing important reasons why God is so worthy of blessing and praise.

The principal reason for the praise is that “he [God] chose us” (ἐξελέξατο). This term was commonly used in the LXX for God’s choice of individuals: He chose Abraham (Neh 9:7), Aaron (Ps 105:26 [104:26]), Moses (Sirach 45:4), David (1 Kings 11:34; Ps 78:70 [77:70]), and Eli’s father (1 Sam 2:28). Most importantly, he chose Jacob/Israel (Isa 41:8; 44:1–2) to set his love upon him and his descendants (Deut 7:7; 10:15) and for Jacob to be his own special possession (14:2). The verb is also used to speak of God’s choosing Christ. When God spoke from the cloud at the scene of the transfiguration, he said, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him” (Luke 9:35). The latter case, of coursedoes not mean that God has chosen Christ to experience redemption and the forgiveness of sins as is in view for the elect here, but that he chose Christ to fulfill a particular and indispensible role for securing salvation.

The usage of the verb suggests that God chooses individuals and together they comprise the group (“us”; ἡμᾶς). Throughout this letter there is an oscillation between the individual and the group. In the ethical exhortation of chapters 4–6, Paul addresses the group (“you”; second person plural), but implicit with each admonition is the personal responsibility of each individual member of the group. Thus, when he admonishes them to “speak truth” (4:25), “be kind” (4:32) or “walk in love” (5:2) using the second person plural, each individual is expected to receive this as a command directly to him or her and to bring their conduct in line with these virtues. At times, Paul can make this more explicit, such as when he says “speak truth, each one of you” (4:25), but this is for emphasis. An individual application is present with each second person plural exhortation.

Similarly, the election, redemption, and salvation truths of Ephesians 1–2 are stated to be true of the corporate group of believers whom Paul addresses (“we” [Paul and his readers] and “you” [the readers, or sometimes, the Gentile readers]), but there is always implicit an individual application. To say, then, that “the concept of election and destining here is corporate”9 is correct in what it affirms, but wrong in what it denies. Paul is affirming that his believing readers have been chosen by God, but he is not denying that God has individually chosen them to be in a relationship with himself, as the choice of the verb strongly suggests. Individual election is also necessitated by the metaphor of adoption that he uses two lines later (1:5a). In the Roman world, groups were not adopted by a paterfamilias, only individuals. Nevertheless, the Father is forming these individuals into a family; thus, a strong corporate element is retained, but not to the exclusion of the individual.

When Paul says that God chose us “in him” (ἐν αὐτῷ), he is referring to Christ’s participation in God’s act of choosingJust as Christ was involved with the Father in the creation of the world (“by him all things were created”; Col 1:16; see also John 1:3), so also Christ participated with the Father in choosing people for himself.

Because this sovereign and gracious act took place “before the foundation of the world,” the text therefore implicitly teaches the preexistence of Christ. God’s choosing took place in eternity past. John uses the same expression (πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου) to speak of the love of the Father for the Son prior to his creation of the universe (John 17:24). Peter uses it to describe God’s foreknowledge of how he would save the world through his Son (1 Pet 1:20).

The idea of God choosing a people for himself in eternity past is taught elsewhere in the Bible. The psalmist prays that God will “remember the people you purchased long ago (ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς)” (Ps 74:2 TNIV [73:2 LXX]). The Greek prepositional phrase could be rendered, “from the beginning of time”; the corresponding Hebrew expression (qedem) is best rendered, “from prehistoric times.”

A variety of Jewish texts also speak of God’s choosing his people before creation. Joseph and Asenath 8:9, for instance, speaks of Israel as “your people whom you have chosen before all (things) came into being.” The idea of God’s choosing people in a pretemporal period may also be present in Rev 13:8, where one reading of the syntax is that the names of believers are written in the book of life before the foundation of the world (ESV [“everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain”]; NLT; NASB; NRSV). The fact that God did his choosing in this pretemporal period strongly underlines his initiative and grace in salvation.

Since Paul is addressing a group of people who already comprise the “us,” he does not address the more theoretical question of people who decline the offer or refuse to put their faith in Christ. Similarly, neither here nor elsewhere in Ephesians does Paul take up the question of whether God rejects those whom he does not choose. As Lincoln notes, the text “provokes absolutely no speculation about the negative side of election, reprobation.”


 Arnold, C. E. (2010). Ephesians (pp. 79–81). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.



0%(0)
0%(0)
  约3:15告诉你: 神预先爱世人=神预先定下赐独生子 ! /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (102)
    创世前,神先爱的不是具体人!! 是世人,=赐下基督给世人  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (69)
      这头老母猪不知道拣选是十个西瓜选一个的意思吗?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (61)
        劈死的就是父先爱具体人的异端! 怒火烧死你!👈  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (48)
          你公公婆婆预先爱了你这个淫妇,你不承认他们对你的大爱?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (61)
            阿古的噩梦: 父预先平息忿怒了吗?  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (65)
              你公公婆婆预先平息了他们对你淫乱的忿怒?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (45)
                阿古认错就好!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (75)
        更何况基督也参与拣选了,啜,小A眼力真棒,难怪你这么蠢 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (69)
          基督怎么选? 没赎罪就选了? 蠢货  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (79)
            拣选乃创世以前早已完成了的作为,救赎是时空中的作为,你这母猪 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (56)
              基督不赎罪,父就不生气的选你了? 你拉上基督也没有用!👈  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (60)
                你公公婆婆知道你会淫乱的,这不等于他们那时不爱你,更不是因为 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (78)
                  阿古的噩梦: 父预先平息忿怒了吗?  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (74)
                    没有  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (58)
                      你认错就好! 😊先爱你滚一边去!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (55)
                        请问神的忿怒已经平息了,你还需要救赎大爱吗?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (69)
                          所以不是先爱具体人,具体人没认罪悔改,耶稣也没赎罪平息怒火。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (71)
                            也就是说人们没有人罪悔改前上帝根本就不爱世人?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (92)
                              创世前父既然忿怒就不爱具体人,但爱手造的人类,故基督救赎。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (81)
                              根本没有父在创世前先爱你具体人一说! 做梦吧。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (65)
                              具体人不悔改,神就不爱。神先爱世人=就是神预定基督认人悔改!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (70)
                  阿古的噩梦: 父预先平息忿怒了吗?  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (83)
                  父平息怒火,基督必须赎罪! 劈死你!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (58)
                    是的,100%同意,so what?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (75)
                      基督不赎罪,父就不生气的选你了? 你拉上基督也没有用!👈  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (51)
                        父忿怒和祂拣选爱你,有冲突吗?父不忿怒,你还需要救赎大爱吗?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (66)
                          不是先爱具体人,具体人没认罪悔改,耶稣也没赎罪平息怒火。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (74)
                            神爱人的目的不就是为了祂的公义得到满足吗?神爱的对象就是忿怒 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (66)
                              神爱的具体人需要耶稣钉十字架+信基督赎罪!创世前不爱具体人。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (50)
                              正因为神爱的具体人需要耶稣钉十字架,所以创世前不爱具体人。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (82)
                              创世前神爱的世人人类,不是具体人! 蠢货。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (72)
                              哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅 你反驳什么? 垃圾!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (69)
                  创世前拉上基督父就不忿怒了? 就爱你了? 骗自己呢?😂  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (70)
              这叫好比你公公婆婆计划要你老公娶你这个必定给他儿子戴绿帽子的 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (82)
        那不是父拣选人,是基督。弃子而选的货!😂  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (66)
          父神在创世以前在基督里拣选=父拣选+基督参与拣选,你的,明白 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (74)
            圣经哪里说基督在创世前拣选人了? 做梦嘛  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (70)
              所以说,在基督里拣选就是基督参与拣选是一个意思,正如父创造乃 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (40)
                干嚎了? 认错吧!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (52)
            篡改经文! 劈死你!👈  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (57)
            创世前,基督是中保吗? 不是中保,怎么在基督里?  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (92)
              所以说,在基督里拣选就是基督参与拣选是一个意思,正如父创造乃 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (58)
                创世前拉上基督父就不忿怒了? 就爱你了? 骗自己呢?😂  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (70)
                在时空中的基督里拣选! 当然基督拣选!  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (66)
                  “拣选”的作为在创世以前早已“完结”,醒醒,老母猪  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (64)
                    父在耶稣赎罪前+并且在具体人信耶稣为他赎罪前,不可能平息怒火 - repentant 10/31/19 (56)
                      谁说神的忿怒那时已经平息了,你公公婆婆要他们儿子娶你不等于 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (67)
                        父爱具体人(你们,我们),必须在人爱耶稣之后。 约翰福音 - repentant 10/31/19 (70)
                        又砸死自己了! 神忿怒就是不爱阿古昏蛋,需要基督替死!😂  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (69)
                          思考题:如果神的忿怒已经平息了,还需要神救赎的大爱吗?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (70)
                            蠢货! 父预定基督救赎=打算平息怒火。平息怒火必在时空中☝️  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (75)
                              是啊,那不是神set his love upon us吗? - 从上而生 10/31/19 (81)
                                不是先爱具体人,具体人没认罪悔改,耶稣也没赎罪平息怒火。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (75)
                                  神爱人的目的不就是为了祂的公义得到满足吗?神爱的对象就是忿怒 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (60)
                    所以阿古创世前就是义人了吗?😂  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (48)
            哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (54)
    你是说约3:16吧?不是15节吧?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (90)
      对。  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (71)
    创世前爱的不是具体人!! 是世人☝️ 弃子而定的货!👈  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (79)
  约3:15告诉你: 神爱世人=神赐独生子 砸死自己吧! /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (73)
      哪里矛盾了! 约3:15告诉你: 神预先爱世人=神预先定下赐  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (66)
        这都哪跟哪啊?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (73)
  这蠢货不明白只有一个预定: 父预定基督=救人。 /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (39)
    eternal past里面有先后?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (54)
        预定子干什么?不是救赎预定得救的人吗?两者不同时发生?  /无内容 - 从上而生 10/31/19 (53)
          谢谢阿古认错!😅  /无内容 - repentant 10/31/19 (56)
标  题 (必选项):
内  容 (选填项):
实用资讯
回国机票$360起 | 商务舱省$200 | 全球最佳航空公司出炉:海航获五星
海外华人福利!在线看陈建斌《三叉戟》热血归回 豪情筑梦 高清免费看 无地区限制
一周点击热帖 更多>>
一周回复热帖
历史上的今天:回复热帖
2018: 转贴:得荣耀——得着复活的身体
2018: 好文推荐:你的心田是块好土吗?(ZT生
2017: 你这是信心还是无知自大?
2017: 给别的教会一个年轻弟兄的回信摘要
2016: ZT: 宣教生命的傳承
2016: 因为人所做的事,连一切隐藏的事,无论
2015: 天国七默 (之四之五)
2015: 诗篇23 和 诗篇139 (歌曲)
2014: Faith,Politics,USA vs HK CHINA
2014: Interesting