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驳亚他那修“基督人性被造"论
送交者: repentant 2020年12月14日11:27:04 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话

亚他那修一篇“反亚流”的论文,因为是反驳,掺杂调和了正反双方的观点。主要论调是:作为神的道的基督不是被造的(反亚流的观点),而基督成为人的人性却是被造的(亚氏的主张)。前者是对的,后者错误。任你口水四溅,还得看你引用的经文不是?

可惜经文寥寥,只有两句箴言8:22和希伯来书3:2,所以反驳起来相当容易。

箴言 - 第 8 章 第 22 节
在耶和华造化的起头,在太初创造万物之先,就有了我。
The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,, before his deeds of old;

注:这是所罗门的箴言,亚氏的论证是:既然所罗门是被造,那么基督同样也是被造的了。这里his works,亚氏认为就是“被造之物”。

这个定义是荒谬的!所罗门这里并不是说他是被造之物,否则你如何解释所罗门是在太初创造万物之先,就造了所罗门呢?人都不存在,何况所罗门!

这里his works,显然是指父神的预定。所罗门在创世前的永恒里,父神已经预定了他,即是他的工作。神的工作就是:在他的旨意里预定/拣选了所罗门。永恒里的预定,必定要在时空中实现。正在写箴言的时空中的所罗门,正是意识到了他就是神预定和拣选的实现。

同样道理,降世的耶稣也是神在创世前永恒里的预定和拣选,此处略去不论。

紧接着的经文也验证了这一点。值得注意的是,所罗门用“我已生出”来表达神对他的预定拣选。很简单,神的预定拣选是创世前的旨意或计划蓝图,即神创世前就在神的思想意念里有了念头的产生:即所罗门的出生(be born)。你可以想像一个“所罗门出生的场景”,这只是神的意念,在神的意念里,所罗门已经出生了。

这同样可以解释耶稣基督的出生,那是神创世前预定好的。这“出生”是神的计划。亚氏也对“出生”加以论述,却是等同与“受造”。这犯了逻辑错误,创世前没有人,就没有创造(受造),只有神在头脑意念里的旨意计划。所以亚氏以此经文论述基督的人性被造是大错特错的!

可见,无论是HIS WORKS还是BE BORN,在创世前都不是指神的创造,而只有尚未实现的旨意和计划。

1. 诗篇 - 第 2 章 第 7 节
受膏者说,我要传圣旨。耶和华曾对我说,你是我的儿子,我今日生你。
2. 使徒行传 - 第 13 章 第 33 节
神已经向我们这作儿女的应验,叫耶稣复活了。正如诗篇第二篇上记着说,你是我的儿子,我今日生你。
3. 希伯来书 - 第 1 章 第 5 节
所有的天使,神从来对那一个说,你是我的儿子,我今日生你。又指着那一个说,我要作他的父,他要作我的子。
4. 希伯来书 - 第 5 章 第 5 节
如此,基督也不是自取荣耀作大祭司,乃是在乎向他说,你是我的儿子,我今日生你。的那一位。


箴言 - 第 8 章
22在耶和华造化的起头,在太初创造万物之先,就有了我。
The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,, before his deeds of old;

23从亘古,从太初,未有世界以前,我已被立
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
24没有深渊,没有大水的泉源,我已生出
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25大山未曾奠定,小山未有之先,我已生出。
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26耶和华还没有创造大地,和田野,并世上的土质,我已生出。
before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.


希伯来书 - 第 3 章 第 2 节
2他为那设立他的尽忠,如同摩西在神的全家尽忠一样。
He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.

这是亚氏引用的另一句经文,他说英文的“设立”是“he made"。查看NIV和KJV,都是appoint。亚氏解释为创造也是牵强附会。即便是made,也未必是创造。这应该对应上面箴言的8:23,即设立SET UP或指定。

总之,亚氏仅仅根据这两句经文,就贸然得出耶稣的“人性被造论”是不成立。

要是基督人性被造,那就更不支持召会的“调和论”了。基督的灵(神性)能“掺杂调和”上受造的人性(人灵)? 或者人性(人灵)“掺杂调和”了神性(神灵)更无可能了。何况,耶稣的灵=基督的灵=神的道。实际上,亚氏在论述神的道不是被造物时,已经表明道是永恒的,那就没有改变。

可见,亚氏的“基督人性被造论”即便是成立的,也根本不支持召会的“调和论”和“成神论”。:))

圣经很清楚,有神,有人,却没有杂合的神人。神创造时没有,以后当然也没有了。


附录

亚他那修” 反亚流”

Chapter XIV.—Texts explained; Fourthly, Hebrews iii. 2 fin. and other texts. On the whole made 奴仆被造神将要审判之物被造之物( faithful4章和其他经文一样,把解释为可以信托( Thus they misunderstand the passage in the Proverbs, ‘The Lord hath created me a beginning of His ways for His work[211],’ and the words of the Apostle, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him[212],’ and straightway argue, that the Son of God is a work and a creature. But although they might have learned from what is said above, had they not utterly lost their power of apprehension, that the Son is not from nothing nor in the number of things originate at all, the Truth witnessing[213]  For all these texts have the same force and meaning, a religious one, declarative of the divinity of the Word, even those of them which speak humanly concerning Him, as having become the Son of man. But, though this distinction is sufficient for their refutation, still, since from a misconception of the Apostle’s words (to mention them first), they consider the Word of God to be one of the works, because of its being written, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him,’ I have thought it needful to silence this further argument of theirs, taking in hand[223], as before, their statement.

我认为,针对亚流派的那些疯狂的假教师们,如何抵挡真理的疯狂行为所说的已经够多了。我希望他们能够停止那些邪恶的思想,以及对亵渎救主的话,并且悔改。他们若仍然不愿意顺服,要像狗一样回头吞吃他们自己呕吐出来的秽物。继续为着他们的不敬虔,发明各样的说辞。那么,就是
他们误解了箴言的这句话,create)了我他为那造了(译者:英文为。他们毫无掩饰的争辩,神的儿子只不过是一个成品和一个被造之物。虽然他们可能学习过上述的经文,他们完全丧失了他们的思考能力,就是子不是从虚无而有的,也不是有起始之物中的一个。真理也如此见证(因为,作为神,他不可能是一件成品,称他为被造之物也是不敬虔的。当我们说的时候,我们是指一个被造之物或是成品。) 而,若他们愿意抛弃他们荒诞的小说,就会认同上述具有良善意义的经文。因为他们乃是执迷不悟的,让我们重新探讨那个问题背后的意义。用这一段一段的经文, 提醒忠信的人,他们(亚流派)根本不认识基督教的信仰。不然,他们就不会像今日不信的犹太人一样闭嘴无声,而会去探求并学习,‘太初有道,道与神同在,道 就是神,’这句话指的就是父喜悦道成为人。这也就是约翰描述祂的,‘道成了肉身。’彼得也说,‘神已经立他为主,为基督了,’-就像所罗门论到主自己的位 格时,说,‘在耶和华造化的起头,在太初创造万物之先,就造(译者:英文为create)了我’;而保罗说,‘就远超过天使’;又说,‘反倒虚己,取了奴 仆的形像,成为人的样式’;又说,‘同蒙天召的圣洁弟兄啊,你们应当思想我们所认为使者、为大祭司的耶稣。他为那设立他的尽忠,如同摩西在神的全家尽忠一 样。’因为这些经文的意义都是敬虔的和具有影响力的。在他成为人子,人却把他当作一个普通的人的时候,宣告了道的神格(他为那设立他的尽忠。Accordingly the words, ‘Who is faithful to Him that made Him,’ implies no parallel with others, nor means that by having faith He became well-pleasing; but that, being Son of the True God, He too is faithful, and ought to be believed in all He says and does, Himself remaining unalterable and not changed[254] 那造祂的对祂是信实的Son),祂也是信实的,我们可以相信祂所说所作的一切。在祂人性的经纶和肉身的显现中,祂自己则仍然是不可改变,也未曾改变过。

7. Thus then we may meet these men who are shameless, and from the single expression ‘He made,’ may shew that they err in thinking that the Word of God is a work. But further, since the drift also of the context is orthodox, shewing the time and the relation to which this expression points, I ought to shew from it also how the heretics lack reason; viz. by considering, as we have done above, the occasion when it was used and for what purpose. Now the Apostle is not discussing things before the creation when he thus speaks, but when ‘the Word became flesh;’ for thus it is written, ‘Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession Jesus, who was faithful to Him that made Him.’ Now when became He ‘Apostle,’ but when He put on our flesh? and when became He ‘High Priest of our profession,’ but when, after offering Himself for us, He raised His Body from the dead, and, as now, Himself brings near and offers to the Father those who in faith approach Him, redeeming all, and for all propitiating God? Not then as wishing to signify the Essence of the Word nor His natural generation from the Father, did the Apostle say, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him’—(perish the thought! for the Word is not made, but makes)—but as signifying His descent to mankind and High-priesthood which did ‘become’—as one may easily see from the account given of the Law and of Aaron. I mean, Aaron was not born a high-priest, but a man; and in process of time, when God willed, he became a high-priest; yet became so, not simply, nor as betokened by his ordinary garments, but putting over them the ephod, the breastplate
[255], the robe, which the women wrought at God’s command, and going in them into the holy place, he offered the sacrifice for the people; and in them, as it were, mediated between the vision of God and the sacrifices of men. Thus then the Lord also, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;’ but when the Father willed that ransoms should be paid for all and to all, grace should be given, then truly the Word, as Aaron his robe, so did He take earthly flesh, having Mary for the Mother of His Body as if virgin earth[256], that, as a High Priest, having He as others an offering, He might offer Himself to the Father, and cleanse us all from sins in His own blood, and might rise from the dead.

故此,让我们再来用‘祂造了(made)’这句话会会这些无耻的人,就能表 明他们错误的认为神的道是一个成品。除此以外,因为这种偏差的背景是大公教义,我也会使用这种说法出现的时间和挂下,表明异端是如何的缺乏理性。如同我们 前面已经做过的,我们要思考它们被使用的场合及目的。如今使徒只在说‘道成肉身’的时候才论到万有被创造之前的事。故此经上记着,‘同蒙天召的圣洁弟兄 啊,你们应当思想我们所认为使者(译者:即使徒)、为大祭司的耶稣。他为那设立他的尽忠。’祂成为‘使徒’的时候难到不就是祂披上了我们的肉身的时候吗? 而他成为‘大祭司’的时候,不就是祂为我们献上自己,将祂的身体从死人中复活,聚集那些在信心中前来就近祂的人,将他们献给父神,拯救他们,并使神的愤怒 止息的时候吗?所以这样的期望(译者:指神对人的救赎)既不是道的性质,也不是祂从父的出生,使徒也说,‘向着那位造祂者尽忠(Who was faithful to Him that made Him)’--(灭绝这样的想法!因为道不是被造的,而是创造万有的)--这乃是指祂的降世为人和大祭司,这就是‘成为(became)’--如同人马可 以轻易的从律法和亚伦所提供的细节看见这点。我的意思是,亚伦并不是生下来就是大祭司,而是一个人。而是等他长大后,神愿意,他才成为大祭司。这个成为并 不是因着他自己那件平凡的外袍,而是披上妇人们根据神的命令,所做的祭司袍,胸牌,和内袍。亚伦要披着这些进入圣所,为百姓献上祭物,成为神洞察的眼光和 人的祭物中的中间人。故此主也说,‘太初有道,道与神同在,道就是神;’当父愿意为万人付上赎价的时候,恩典就被赐下。如同亚伦披上了他的袍子一样,道取 了属尘土的肉身,让马利亚成为祂身体的母亲。作为大祭司,祂以自己为祭,将自己献给父神,用祂的宝血洗净我们一切的罪,叫我们也能够从死人中复活。

8. For what happened of old was a shadow of this; and what the Saviour did on His coming, this Aaron shadowed out according to the Law. As then Aaron was the same and did not change by putting on the high-priestly dress
[257], but remaining the same was only robed, so that, had any one seen him offering, and had said, ‘Lo, Aaron has this day become high-priest,’ he had not implied that he then had been born man, for man he was even before he became high-priest, but that he had been made high-priest in his ministry, on putting on the garments made and prepared for the high-priesthood; in the same way it is possible in the Lord’s instance also to understand aright, that He did not become other than Himself on taking the flesh, but, being the same as before, He was robed in it;was made High Priest, by putting on a body which was originate and made, and such as He can offer for us; wherefore He is said to be made. and who again, on such a question, would not have answered, that the Father made Him man, and sent Him to us as High Priest? And this meaning, and time, and character, the Apostle himself, the writer of the words, ‘Who is faithful to Him that made Him,’ will best make plain to us, if we attend to what goes before them. For there is one train of thought, and the lection is all about One and the Same. He writes then in the Epistle to the Hebrews thus; ‘Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death wereall their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took not on Him the nature of Angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted,He is able to succour them that are tempted. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Jesus; who was faithful to Him that made Him[261].’

旧 约发生的一切乃是这些事的影儿。救主的来临乃是亚伦根据律法所预表的。就像亚伦并没有因为披上大祭司的袍子而改变,除了穿上袍子外,他还是一样的。也就是 说,那些看见亚伦献祭,并说,‘看啊!今天亚伦变成了大祭司’的人,并不是代表他生为人,他成为大祭司之前才是人。而是他在他的职事中披上为大祭司所制造 的袍子,被立为大祭司。同样的,在主身上,我们也要有正确的认识。祂在披上肉身后并不会成为祂所不是的,而是永远不变。
这样的表述不能被理解为道是被造的,但是这位是万有的塑造者之道,借着披上一个有起源、被造的身体被造成大祭司,好叫祂能为我们献上自己;故此,祂被称为被造的。若主并没有成为人,这是亚流派争辩的重点。若,除了外,我们还能如何描述祂的成为人?是的对道本身正确的描述,那么对于人的正确描述就是become被造(有谁在看见主如同一个人一样的四处行走,在祂的工作里却又显明为神的时候,不会问,是谁把他造成一个人?而当然听见这个问题,难道不会回答,是父把祂造成一个人,并把祂当作大祭司,差遣到我们中间? 我们先搞清楚其先决条件,这个意义,时间,人物和使徒自己,以及写下‘祂向那位造祂者尽忠’的作者对于我们就是非常容易理解的。因为只有一条思路,而经文 都是有关与那一位永不改变者。祂接着又在希伯来书中写到,“儿女既同有血肉之体,他也照样亲自成了血肉之体,特要藉著死败坏那掌死权的,就是魔鬼,并要释 放那些一生因怕死而为奴仆的人。他并没有取了天使的性质,乃是成为伯拉罕的後裔。所以,他凡事该与他的弟兄相同,为要在神的事上成为慈悲忠信的大祭司,为百姓的罪献上挽回祭。他自己既然被试探而受苦,就能搭救被试探的人。同蒙天召的圣洁弟兄啊,你们应当思想我们所认为使者、为大祭司的耶稣。祂为那造祂的尽忠。”

9. Who can read this whole passage without condemning the Arians, and admiring the blessed Apostle, who has spoken well? for when was Christ ‘made,’ when became He ‘Apostle,’ except when, like us, He ‘took part in flesh and blood?’ And when became He ‘a merciful and faithful High Priest,’ except when ‘in all things He was made like unto His brethren?’ And then was He ‘made like,’ when He became man, having put upon Him our flesh. Wherefore Paul was writing concerning the Word’s human Economy, when he said, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him,’ and not concerning His Essence. Have not therefore any more the madness to say that the Word of God is a work; whereas He is Son by nature Only-begotten, and then had ‘brethren,’ when He took on Him flesh like ours; which moreover, by Himself offering Himself, He was named and became ‘merciful and faithful,’ —merciful, because in mercy to us He offered Himself for us, and faithful, not as sharing faith with us, nor as having faith in any one as we have, but as deserving to receive faith in all He says and does, and as offering a faithful sacrifice, one which remains and does not come to nought. For those which were offered according to the Law, had not this faithfulness, passing away with the day and needing a further cleansing; but the Saviour’s sacrifice, taking place once, has perfected everything, and is become faithful as remaining forever. And Aaron had successors, and in a word the priesthood under the Law exchanged its first ministers as time and death went on; but the Lord having a high priesthood without transition and without succession, has become a ‘faithful High Priest,’ as continuing for ever; and faithful too by promise, that He may hear
[262] and not mislead those who come to Him. This may be also learned from the Epistle of the great Peter, who says, ‘Let them that suffer according to the will of God, commit their souls to a faithful Creator[263].’ For He is faithful as not changing, but abiding ever, and rendering what He has promised.

谁能够在读完这整段话后,不定罪亚流派,并赞扬蒙福的使徒能把话讲的如此清楚?因为当基督‘被造’的时候,在祂成为‘使徒’的时候,像我们一样‘取了血肉之体?’难道他不是在‘凡事该与他的弟兄相同’的时候,才成为‘慈悲忠信的大祭司’? 当祂成为人的时候,难道不是因为祂披上了我们的肉身,才与我们‘相同’。故此保罗在写到道人性的经纶(Word's human Economy)的时候,说到‘祂为那造祂的尽忠’这句话的是,并不是指祂的本质。别让任何的疯子在宣称神的道是个作品;祂因着独生的性质是儿子 (Son),当取了并披上我们的肉身时,成为‘弟兄(brethren)’。祂又因为献上了自己,而被称作‘慈悲和忠信的’--慈悲乃是因为在祂对我们的 怜悯中祂献上了自己,忠信不是因为祂与我们同享一样的信仰,也不是像我们一样的拥有信心,而是祂所说的、所做的就像献上一个信实的祭物,配得我们的信托。 祂是永远长存,绝不会落空的那位。而那些根据律法献上祭物的,却得不到这样的信实,必须随着时间的往前而不断的洁净自己。然而救主的献祭是一次永远有功效 的,完全了整个律法,祂的工作是永远信实的。亚伦与他的后裔,必须在律法下,在死亡的时候交接其职事。而主的祭司职份是更高超的,不需要交接也不需要继 承,祂成为‘慈悲忠信的大祭司’,是用于的。祂的应许是信实的,叫祂能够听见(我们的祈求),也不会误导那些来就近祂的人。我们也能从伟大的彼得的书信中 看见,‘所以那照神旨意受苦的人要一心为善,将自己灵魂交与那信实的创造主。(译者:根据英文重译。)’因为祂是信实不改变的,永远住在(我们里面),并 成就祂所应许的。

10. Now the so-called gods of the Greeks, unworthy the name, are faithful neither in their essence nor in their promises; for the same are not everywhere, nay, the local deities come to nought in course of time, and undergo a natural dissolution; wherefore the Word cries out against them, that ‘faith is not strong in them,’ but they are ‘waters that fail,’ and ‘there is no faith in them.’ But the God of all, being one really and indeed and true, is faithful, who is ever the same, and says, ‘See now, that I, even I am He,’ and I ‘change not
[264];’ and therefore His Son is ‘faithful,’ being ever the same and unchanging, deceiving neither in His essence nor in His promise; —as again says the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians, ‘Faithful is He who calleth you, who also will do it[265];’ for in doing what He promises, ‘He is faithful to His words.’ And he thus writes to the Hebrews as to the word’s meaning ‘unchangeable;’ ‘If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful; He cannot deny Himself[266].’the Word was not as one of things originate in a body, nor as creature in creature, but as God in flesh[270], and Framer of all and Builder in that which was built by Him. And men are clothed in flesh in order to be and to subsist; but the Word of God was made man in order to sanctify the flesh, and, though He was Lord, was in the form of a servant; for the whole creature is the Word’s servant, which by Him came to be, and was made.

如 今,那些希腊人所谓的神(gods),我们根本不屑提它们的名字,它们的性质和应许都不是信实的。而各地的那些当地的神祗,不但在时间的流逝中归于无有, 最终自然消亡。道却向它们呼喊(译者:有叫阵的意思),‘它们里面缺乏信实’,它们不过是‘掉落的水珠,’和‘在它们里面没有信实。’然而万有的神,是确 实、实在、和真实的那位,是信实的,祂永远不变,并说,‘看啊,我永远就是祂,’和我‘永不改变。’所以祂的儿子是‘信实的,’永远长存并永不改变,祂的 性质和应许都不会蒙骗我们。就像使徒写给帖撒罗尼家人书中再次提到的,‘那召你们的本是信实的,他必成就这事。’因着成就祂所应许的,‘祂对祂的话是信实 的。’所以他写给希伯来人的信中也提到道‘不可改变’的意义:‘他仍是可信的,因为他不能背乎自己。’故此,使徒能够理直气壮的描述道在肉身的显现,称祂为这表明甚至当祂被造为人的时候,不改变的。
如同使徒在他的书信中提到祂的大祭司职分时,说到祂的被造成为人,并没有忽视祂的神格。反而先提到它,提醒我们不能牺牲任何一面。更重要的是,当他提到祂的人性的时候,我们自然会知道祂的尊高和祂的君尊都是父的。例如,他说,‘摩西为仆人,而基督确是儿子,前者‘对他的家尽忠,’而后者乃是‘对全家(尽忠,译者:指神的家),’因为祂建立了神的家,是它的主和塑造者,也如同神一样圣别它。对于摩西,性质上是一个人,成为忠信的,乃是因相信那位借着自己的道跟他说话的神。而道并不是一件在身体中有起源的事物,而是神在肉身之中,祂是一切被祂所建造之事物的塑造者和建造者。人类必须穿上肉身才能够存在并存活。但是神的道被造为人,乃是为了圣别(人类的)肉身。虽然祂是主,但是却在奴仆的形像之中。因为万有都是道的奴仆,借着祂存有,借着祂被造。

11. and in consequence He is called our brother, as having become man.
 the Son is not a work, but in Essence indeed the Father’s offspring, while in the Economy, according to the good pleasure
[271] 祂造(的这个表述是正确的,它并不是说道是被造的,而是指那个祂所取的与我们一样的身体。故此,祂成为人,被称作是我们的兄弟。即使当made生(现今的讨论已经从每一个角度陈明了这个字的意义,并指明子(Economy)中,祂为了我们的缘故被造、并被组成为一个人。我要再看看他们还能掰出其他错误的推论?因着这个原因,使徒说,在箴言中,甚至称祂为被造之物。只要我们承认祂成为人,不论我们说has been made),被造(formed),奴仆,使女之子(was constituted),走了祂的旅程,新郎兄弟的儿子,兄弟,<span "="">
都是没有问题的。这些词汇都能够合适的别用来描述人的构成。它们都不代表道的素质,而是祂的成为人。

 


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    我当然天天要悔改认罪,不像某位人死不悔改 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (92)
      又是漂亮话!你对调和论异端的错误悔改了吗?  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (76)
    耶稣是神还是人?请教 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (105)
      不调和会死啊?  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (101)
        没用调和的神人一说。 - repentant 12/14/20 (88)
        英文圣经 ming ling,说的 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (161)
          你们的调和论是把混合物,变成了化合物。 - repentant 12/14/20 (109)
            化学博士!尊重下 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (87)
              中学的化学,不需要博士。普通人的常识,只有你家油面是特种物质 - repentant 12/14/20 (79)
              根本没有调和玛利亚,是感孕之。你也崇拜玛利亚吗? - repentant 12/14/20 (100)
                耶稣即便老死,其灵也是道,也要归父。 - repentant 12/14/20 (95)
              圣经证据呢? 中间态的调和不存在,那是杂合。 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
          回中学看看什么是混合物 - repentant 12/14/20 (103)
          早己告诉你,此调和,非彼调和。你却不懂啊!  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (90)
          油和面当然是合在一起的,圣经用MINGLE没错。 - repentant 12/14/20 (98)
          眼瞎!这里的混合或调和=合一。不是油变成面。 - repentant 12/14/20 (104)
            油分子不能变成面分子,或带上了面分子的一部分。 - repentant 12/14/20 (84)
            油分子变成面分子,或带上了面分子的一部分。 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
  不服的,可以为亚氏提供额外的经文证据。谢谢!  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (91)
    请自己去读我贴的每一内容,经文在内 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (90)
      你逃避太多了。一个简单问题就是无法辨明。可叹!  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (85)
        我真帮不了您老了  /无内容 - 克利西亚 12/14/20 (105)
          我上面的跟贴帮了你没有? 搞清混合物了没有?  /无内容 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
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