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多國網民熱議:羅馬帝國 vs 漢帝國
送交者: 嵐少爺 2014年12月05日18:19:02 於 [軍事天地] 發送悄悄話
   三泰虎12月5日譯文,多國網民熱議:羅馬帝國vs漢帝國。德國網友稱,“富有魅力的事實是,中國仍然存在,而其他帝國倒下後就再也沒有站起來,比如奧斯曼帝國、蒙古帝國和羅馬帝國,就連英帝國也在縮小成原來的規模,甚或會消失在地球上。”荷蘭網友稱, “漢人是幸運的(多虧了冰河時代),第一批躋身高智商族群,完善了農業藝術,因此有能力在歐亞大陸的一個角落維持異常龐大的人口,而其他帝國就沒那麼幸運了。”

      
譯文來源:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com
外文標題:Roman Empire vs Han Empire
本文地址:http://www.santaihu.com/2014120502.html
外文地址:
http://defence.pk/threads/roman-empire-vs-han-empire.345411/




Here an stats between the Roman Empire at it’s height and the Han empire at it’s most powerful.
———————————Rome——————————Han
Standing army size———-400,000—————————-800,000
Horse reserve—————-80,000—————————–400,000
Minimum required training—-one season————————one year
Training required for———-soldiers—————–every male upon age of 23(meaning over 10 million trained reserves)
Typical general’s career——politician————————— military leader
Weapons—————-mostly wrought iron—————mostly steel by E.Han
Iron industry————–bloomeries————————-blast furnace
Furthest campaign————890 km (Trajan)——————1,850 km (Li Guangli)
Government revenue —–3 billion liters*(at its height) ——6 billion liters*(at its height)

以下是巔峰時期羅馬帝國和最強大時期漢帝國的統計數據對比:

             羅馬帝國   漢帝國

軍隊規模: 40萬     80萬

馬匹儲備: 8萬       40萬

訓練的最短時間: 1個季度 1年

訓練對象: 士兵 23歲以上的所有男性

武器: 主要是鍛鐵 東漢大多數採用鋼鐵

煉鐵工業: 鍛鐵爐 鼓風爐

財政收入: 30億升 60億升




以下是討論:


BuddhaPalm(中國)
The Han defeated the Huns, who burned Rome.
漢朝打敗了匈奴,後者又燒掉了羅馬


atatwolf(土耳其)
Turco-Mongols never took Rome but they took all of China without a sweat.
蒙古人從未占領羅馬,但是毫不費力就占領了整個中國


atatwolf(土耳其)
Plus Atilla never burnt down Rome. The Romans bought off the Huns.
阿提拉從未燒掉羅馬,羅馬人花錢收買了匈奴人。
【三泰虎註:阿提拉(Attila,406年—453年),古代歐亞大陸匈人的領袖和皇帝,史學家稱之為“上帝之鞭”,曾多次率領大軍入侵東羅馬帝國及西羅馬帝國,並對兩國構成極大的打擊】


MarkusS(意大利)
I think we all know how a war between China and Rome would have ended….a roman general climbing on top of piles of chiense corpses, waving the flag of the eagle and shouting “ROMA VICTOR!”
我們都知道中國和羅馬爆發戰爭的後果,即一位羅馬將軍爬上中國士兵屍體堆上,揮舞着旗幟,高呼“羅馬勝利!”


atatwolf(土耳其)
Chinese were ruled by every people on earth. Several Turkic dynasties, Mongols, British, Japanese and few others. Rome (in Italy) was almost never conquered.
中國人先後被地球上每一個民族統治過,他們是幾個突厥王朝、蒙古人、英國人,日本人等。
而(意大利)羅馬幾乎從未被征服過



nguyen(越南)
China was very powerful, no doubt about it. But the problem was, since her body was too big, she could not mobilize all of its force against a particular enemy at a time. So a sharp penetrating cavalry corp running straight into the Chinese capital can deliver a fatal strike to the whole empire. Losing the capital, the rest would fallen into mass disarray and could be conquered part by part.
中國非常強大,這是毋庸置疑的。問題是,中國太龐大了,無法一次性調動所有軍隊用來對付一個特定的敵人。
所以一支犀利的騎兵軍團就可以直插中國首都,給整個帝國予以致命一擊。首都淪陷後,其他地方就會陷入大規模混亂,會逐個被征服。



j20(中國)
The ancient China external threats always from the north, every beat nomads,put them to the Central Asian, European side out of the north, the geographical environment is not suitable for farming, two hundred or three hundred years later, another nomadic development
古代中國的外部威脅永遠來自北方,每一次打敗游牧民族後,就把他們往中亞、歐洲那邊趕,北方地理環境又不合適農耕,兩三百年後,又有一個游牧民族發展起來



BuddhaPalm(中國)
Ming gunpowder dominates Mongol steppe barbarians.
明朝時期的火藥打敗蒙古草原的野蠻人



Bong(孟加拉國)
Roman Soldiers were muscular. Roman empire had better Naval power
羅馬士兵的肌肉更發達。羅馬帝國擁有更強大的海軍


TheTruth(台灣)
In movies but not so much in real life. The typical Roman soldier was a midget, and Han especially Northern Han were almost 4 inches taller than them. Likewise Northern Han are at least on par with Caucasoids in physical strength, if not stronger and hardier.
電影上而已,實際上並非如此發達。典型的羅馬士兵體型小,而漢人,特別是北方漢人的身高比他們高4英寸左右。同樣地,北方漢人的力量即便沒有更大,也至少與白種人相當。

oye_natta
Did you see them in hollywood movies?
好萊塢電影上看到的吧?


Bong(孟加拉國)
Yes, where else can I see live demo :sarcastic:Within thousand years, body structure didnt change that much I suppose.
Han empire have advantage on land warfare for their large numbers. But Romans are superior with their military strategy and Naval power.
是啊,要不然哪裡還能看。幾千年裡,身體結構不會改變太大的。
漢帝國軍隊人數更多,在陸戰上具有優勢。而羅馬帝國在軍事戰略和水軍實力上更勝一籌。


Nihonjin1051(日本)
Muscularity does not predispose to victory.
肌肉發達並不意味着就能獲得勝利




Nihonjin1051(日本)
 
 
Han Heavy Cavalry
漢朝重裝騎兵

 
Han Army Crossbow
漢朝軍弩

 
Han Army Swords
漢朝軍劍

 
漢軍盔甲


Arya Desa(印度)
Obviously the Romans. The orientals had leather/bamboo armor while the Romans had metal. The Romans also had better military doctrine.

顯然羅馬帝國更強大。東方人的盔甲是皮革或竹製的,而羅馬是鐵製的。羅馬帝國的軍事理論也更先進



Reashot Xigwin
The Han influenced east asian culture from chopsticks to Confucianism.
從筷子的使用到儒家思想的薰陶,漢帝國影響了整個東亞文化




dlclong(中國)
 
 
 





Nihonjin1051(日本)
Chinese General of the Song Dynasty:
宋朝的中國將軍
 



Aegis DDG
Who ever said the Han would lose in an naval confrontation with rome is out of their minds. Ever heard of the Battle of Red Cliff during the three kingdom period?
那些說漢帝國會在海戰中輸給羅馬帝國的人是昏了頭腦。聽說過三國時期的赤壁之戰嗎?



BoQ77(越南)
Basically Roman created the most modern form of government. Surprisingly !!!
根本上說來,羅馬帝國建立了最為現代的政府形式



BoQ77(越南)
Do you hear about Roman Constitution ? Roman Republic ? Senate of Roman ?
聽說過羅馬憲法?羅馬共和國?羅馬議會嗎?



cnleio
Han Empire’s bronze and bluestone armor
漢帝國的青銅盔甲

 
 
 
 


MarkusS(意大利)
 

atatwolf(土耳其)
That looks cool, what is it? An aqueduct? We have the same in Istanbul.
看起來很酷。那是什麼?高架渠?伊斯坦布爾也有。
 


MarkusS(意大利)
Yes it is an Aquaeduct. They normally spanned thousands of km to bring water from the mountains to the big cities
是的,是高架渠,通常綿延數千公里,把山裡的水送往大城市



Götterdämmerung(德國)
The fascinating fact about this is that China still exists as China while the other former empires never got up again once it got vandalised, such as the Ottoman Empire, Mongol Empire or Roman Empire, even the British Empire practically shrunk back to its former size or vanished from the earth.
富有魅力的事實是,中國仍然存在,而其他帝國倒下後就再也沒有站起來,比如奧斯曼帝國、蒙古帝國和羅馬帝國,就連英帝國也在縮小成原來的規模,甚或會消失在地球上。


atatwolf(土耳其)
If US didn’t intervene in WW2 to save the Chinese from the Japanese, China wouldn’t exist at all. It is nothing to be attributed to China.
二戰時,美國要是不干預,把中國人從日本人侵略中拯救出來,中國已經不存在了。這點不能歸功於中國


MarkusS(意大利)
the fascinating fact is, that china does not exist as china since it never was the state it is now, neither had it the same people nor had it any impact on world history.
中國並非是以前的中國,今非昔比,並非是以前的人,對世界歷史也無任何影響


Speeder 2(荷蘭)
that is because the Han were “fortunate” ( thanks to the ice age) enough to be amonst the first major high IQ race to perfect the art of agriculture, hence being able to sustain an unusually large of population in one of the biggest corners of Eurasian continent, unlike their other empire counter parts.
漢人是幸運的(多虧了冰河時代),第一批躋身高智商族群,完善了農業藝術,因此有能力在歐亞大陸的一個角落維持異常龐大的人口,而其他帝國就沒那麼幸運了。



Nihonjin1051(日本)
Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:
羅馬騎兵軍團的士兵
 

Nihonjin1051(日本)
Rome’s greatness was not only realized through her shear military power, but was realized through her architectural know-how:
羅馬帝國的偉大之處,並非純粹通過軍事力量來展現,而且是通過建築知識來得以升華。
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