對於一個信仰教義的爭執，不應該發展到信某種教義就是得救或不得救的地步的結論。
從基督教信仰歷史上來說，信鬱金香的很多前輩是非常敬虔的，誰能夠否認司布真和愛德華茲呢？加爾文派中有許多禱告勇士，我還蠻喜歡讀他們的傳記的。
從基督教的信仰來說，得救的唯一途徑是信耶穌基督得救——這在大家都沒有問題，鬱金香沒有否認耶穌基督是神的兒子，沒有否認經上關於神的兒子耶穌基督的任何描述或定義。這個立場，過去我已經公開表態過了，好像不需要多說。因為beiqian的話，我再次重申一下，希望能夠大家清楚。
鬱金香問題是理解神的救恩到底是怎樣分布給人的，屬於那種總結得有點道理，又不完全合乎道理的雞肋。但是，我認為如今的加爾文派走到“先重生後信”已經離開加爾文原來的教義了，加爾文自己認為信在重生前，我以前已經引用過他的文章。再引用一次：
在他的Commentary on John, Charpter 1, John1:13 確實這麼說了一句：
It may be thought that the Evangelist reverses the natural order by
making regeneration to precede faith, whereas, on the
contrary, it is an effect of faith, and therefore ought to be
placed later. I reply, that both statements perfectly agree;
because by faith we receive the incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23,) by which we are born again to a new and
divine life.
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It may be thought that the Evangelist reverses the natural order by
making regeneration to precede faith, whereas, on the
contrary, it is an effect of faith, and therefore ought to be
placed later. I reply, that both statements perfectly agree;
because by faith we receive the incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23,)
by which we are born again to a new and
divine life. And yet faith itself is a work of the Holy
Spirit, who dwells in none but the children of God. So then, in
various respects, faith is a part of our regeneration, and an
entrance into the kingdom of God, that he may reckon us among
his children. The illumination of our minds by the Holy Spirit
belongs to our renewal, and thus faith flows from regeneration
as from its source; but since it is by the same faith that we
receive Christ, who sanctifies us by his Spirit, on that account
it
is said to be the beginning of our adoption. Commentary on John, Chapter1, John1:13,
關於他老人家的那點faith在前面還是在後面，他實在肚子裡有貨，卻茶壺裡煮餃子，沒倒清楚。後來我讀他的另一本解經書，終於搞明白了：
Our minds never become so firmly established in
the truth of God as to resist all the temptations of Satan, until we
have been confirmed in it by the Holy Spirit. The true
conviction which believers have of the word of God, of their own
salvation, and of religion in general, does not spring from the
judgment of the flesh, or from human and philosophical arguments,
but from the sealing of the Spirit, who imparts to their
consciences such certainty as to remove all doubt. The foundation
of faith would be frail and unsteady, if it rested on human
wisdom; and therefore, as preaching is the instrument of faith,
so
the Holy Spirit makes preaching efficacious.
But is it not the faith itself which is here
said to be sealed by the Holy Spirit? If so, faith goes before the
sealing. I
answer, there are two operations of the Spirit in faith,
corresponding to the two parts of which faith consists, as it
enlightens,
and as it establishes the mind. The commencement of faith is
knowledge: the completion of it is a firm and steady conviction,
which admits of no opposing doubt. Both, I have said, are the
work of the Spirit. No wonder, then, if Paul should declare
that the Ephesians, who received by faith the truth of the gospel,
were confirmed in that faith by the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Commentary on Ephesians, Chapter 1, 1:13
結論，本壇改革宗實在是搞臭了改革宗的名聲，一竅不通，還老想高舉自己根本弄不懂的教義，結果就是華人的那點老祖宗文化遺傳的宿命論，加上大男子主義等等臭裹腳布撿過來，還以為自己是信奉加爾文主義，把自己弄成加爾文討厭的Papist類似的Calvinist。
beiqian大聲嚷嚷，說我割裂聖靈和聖經等等，一竅不通還特有宗教狂熱，瞧瞧人家加爾文說的很清楚，聖靈啊聖靈！如果沒有聖靈的sealing，你就算不得真信，回去好好再讀我的帖子，對着我查的經文自己再查一遍。關於加爾文老人家，他寫的東西有些我還蠻贊同的，不知道他的那套預定論邏輯是否當時也是被天主教徒們逼急了發揮出來的，因為當時天主教徒們（當然我指是Papists們）對新教徒的逼迫是很殘忍的，同情一把。等我找點時間，把加爾文的教義研究一下，再狠狠地批你們，直到讓你們體無完膚。
至於信鬱金香就不得救，本壇無人共鳴，一枝獨秀類型，不值得花時間和精力。我指望版主認真考慮一下如何管理論壇，暫時，大家各自理智管理自己吧。祝大家周末快樂！
