毛澤東指定林彪陪同接見。林彪開始推說出汗不去。毛為此很不高興，

執意堅持林彪一定要出面。但林彪仍不想理會。後來Yequn急了，下跪

哭求，陳說利害，林彪才勉Qiang答應。但在會見時，賓朋寒暄完，

林彪隨即退出，一人枯坐在外面大廳的角落裡，一直到會見結束。

誰還有心思瞥一眼47年前兩位沒有資產的階級革命家 —— 毛齊嘮嗑內容 ？

    1971年6月3日毛澤東主席與齊奧塞斯庫同志談話全文記錄

   MINUTES OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN NICOLAE CEAUSESCU AND MAO ZEDONG IN BEIJING ON 3 JUNE 1971

          請點擊觀賞短視頻：

Cde. ( Comrade ) Mao Zedong: Welcome comrades.

Cde. Nicolae Ceausescu: Thank you very much. We thank you for the very warm welcome we received.

We would like to express our satisfaction with the possibility we have to visit the People’s Republic of China, to meet with you and the other leaders of the Chinese party and state.

Mao: When was the last time you were here?

Ceausescu: Seven years [ago].

Mao: In these seven years some things have changed; did you notice this?

Ceausescu: We saw the people, hundreds of thousands of people; we visited Tsinghua University. We were impressed by the positive attitude and the joy of living displayed by the people in the capital; also, especially, [we were impressed] by the preoccupation with perfect education, to tie it to production, to life, to the construction of socialism.

Mao: That is the way we think about it as well; now we are experimenting.

At the same time, we have to continue to use older teachers and professors, bourgeois; we still don’t have other people. They, however, have to listen to us, to listen to workers and peasants. In their words, they listen; however, in their mind, they blame. There is need for more time, slowly, slowly; 21 years passed since [the success of the revolution.] It’s true, even in the past there were some successes in education; we can’t negate everything. But in what you mentioned just now, the revolutionizing of education, this only happened in the past years.

With you[r country] the activity went forth with a lot of progress.

谷歌同學譯文：

Zhe Zhe Zhe    Zhao Zhao Zhao   Yang Yang Yang   Wu Wu Wu   

Qiang Qiang Qiang   Bang Bang Bang   Yi Yi Yi    Rong Rong Rong    

Dun Dun Dun    Xu Xu Xu    Er Er Er    Gou Gou Gou  

Jing Jing Jing   Dan Dan Dan  Ye Ye Ye  Kuang Kuang Kuang

CDE。毛澤東：歡迎同志們。

CDE。 Nicolae Ceausescu：非常感謝。我們感謝您的熱烈歡迎。

我們想表達我們對有可能訪問中華人民共和國，與你們和中國黨和國家的其他領導人會面的可能性表示滿意。

毛：你上次來這裡是什麼時候？

齊奧塞斯庫：七年前。

毛：在這七年中，有些事情已經改變了。你注意到了嗎？

齊奧塞斯庫：我們看到了人民，數十萬人;我們參觀了清華大學。我們對首都人民的積極態度和生活的喜悅印象深刻;特別是，我們對完全教育的專注，把它與生產，生活，社會主義建設聯繫起來，印象深刻。

毛：這也是我們考慮的方式;現在我們正在試驗。

同時，我們還要繼續用資產階級老教師和教授;我們還沒有其他人。但是，他們必須傾聽我們的意見，傾聽工人和農民的聲音。用他們的話說，他們聽Zhe; 然而，在他們的心中，他們責備。需要更多時間，慢慢地，慢慢地;自革命成功以來已過去21年。的確，即使在過去教育方面也取得了一些成功，我們不能否定一切。但在你剛才提到的教育革命化中，這隻發生在過去幾年。

隨着你[國家]活動的推進取得了很大進展。

齊奧塞斯庫：沒錯，過去幾年我們取得了很好的成績。我們也關心改變教育，以更好地與生產聯繫起來。我們專注於吸引工人階級去管理這些機Gou，並把這個黨同人民群眾聯繫起來。

我們可以說，一般情況下，事情順利進行。當然，我們有很多不足之處，但我們正在與工人階級一起努力與人民一起努力，確保社會主義建設。

毛：如果我們談論缺陷，那麼我們也可以說我們有很多。

齊奧塞斯庫：沒有一個國家沒有缺陷。不同的是有些工作要解決它們，而另一些則試圖隱藏它們。

毛：不能隱瞞缺陷，因為遲早 - 在一天，一年或未來幾個世紀 - 這些缺陷將被揭示。如果我們告訴人們什麼是最好的;人們不會被欺騙。 [欺騙]只能持續很短時間。幾十年來人們不會被欺騙。

齊奧塞斯庫：這是非常真實的，尤其是今天，今天的溝通和信息方法，現實不能隱藏很長時間。

毛：這是非常真實的。即使他們知道這一點。[1]

齊奧塞斯庫：畢竟，衝突出現在他們試圖從人身上隱藏現實的地方。

毛：在有些地方，衝突還沒有出現。

齊奧塞斯庫：但是衝突會不可避免地出現。

毛：就是這樣。

齊奧塞斯庫：當然，如果他們不採取行動來整頓事情，並消除[赤字]。

毛：有些共產黨侮辱了其他黨派，他們認為真相在他們這邊，其他方面總是犯錯誤。我們被稱為教條，戰爭販子，我們有獨裁。這就是他們所說的，在這裡我們有一個軍事官僚專政。

齊奧塞斯庫：不幸的是，確實存在這種謾罵和侮辱其他方面的做法。

毛：有些締約方像你的那樣不這樣說。最近，我讀了你的演講。以一種非常開放的方式，人們認識到過去有過失誤;其他方面不能接受這樣的事情。某些方面侮辱了我們十多年，我們甚至沒有回應。他們被迫侮辱我們。我們可以展示對這種事件的理解。同時，我們很高興我們有被侮辱的質量。這是非常好的。 1960年在布加勒斯特舉行的會議，是不是強加於你？[2]當時，Cde。 Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej有很多困難。我們可以刁難你嗎？！

齊奧塞斯庫：會議確實是在那裡舉行的，在某種程度上，我們也是有過錯的，因為我們可能拒絕舉行這次會議。今天這樣的會議不可能，也不會發生在羅馬尼亞。

毛：當時很難拒絕主辦會議。在1956年舉行的中國共產黨第八次代表大會之際，我與格奧爾基·蓋洛吉·德伊進行了有趣的交談。他從心裡直接告訴我一些事情。當然，忍受這樣的事情是很困難的。那時共產黨解散了，引發了辯論。批評是必不可少的。

齊奧塞斯庫：確實有一些困難時期，即使在今天也有一些困難時期。有新的設計可以創建不同的領導格式，從而消除其他國家和政黨的獨立性。

毛：如果整個地球將成為一個國家的領土將是一件好事！

齊奧塞斯庫：很難; 即使現在可用，它也是太多了。

毛：真的太多了！

齊奧塞斯庫：我們認為最好的辦法是在世界各國之間建立基於平等的關係。

毛澤東：不論他們的規模如何，甚至與聖馬力諾一樣小的國家，其人口為16,000人;我們真誠地感到高興能夠與這樣的國家建立外交接觸。

齊奧塞斯庫：當然，在這個地球上，有些國家是非常大的，大的，中等的國家，小的和非常小的國家，但是所有國家都渴望自由地生活，當然是與其他國家，與其他國家密切合作，但是不能互相配合。

毛：還有一個問題，那就是在黨代表大會上還有其他方面的邀請;在大會期間，例如在捷克斯洛伐克代表大會期間，發生了侮辱和指責。改變這種做法會不會更好？最好不要邀請任何外國代表團參加大會。我們沒有邀請任何人參加第九屆大會。確實，天並沒有塌下來。

齊奧塞斯庫：只要這些代表大會被用於侮辱，就可以採取這種策略來煽動對其他方面的侮辱。

毛：最近，韓國工人黨沒有邀請外賓參加大會。 CDE。金日成去年訪問了我們的國家;他問我們：“你是否邀請任何人？”我們告訴他：不，我們不邀請任何人;很難邀請其他人。他們越是侮辱和評判他人，他們就會面臨更糟糕的事情。

有更多的嘉賓出席，他們沒有相同的意見;舉行雙邊關係比較好，比如反對帝國主義;然後我們戰鬥。他們想要聯合行動;這很難，因為有不同的意見。幾年前，我們和幾位同志交談過，我們告訴他們我們不能達成這樣的協議;即使那時天空並沒有墜落，地球仍在繼續旋轉。

齊奧塞斯庫：當然，如果我們終止了侮辱和標籤，那就太好了。我必須告訴你，許多黨派都呼籲，即使在1969年的[兄弟黨] [莫斯科]大會和蘇共大會上，許多政黨 - 甚至是大黨 - 都拒絕同盟譴責中共，並正在設法與中共建立關係。

毛：雙邊做這些事情比較好，比如我們兩人之間的關係。

齊奧塞斯庫：這正是這些黨派想要的，例如意大利人，西班牙人，[和]其他人。當我們離開這裡時，他們要求我們傳達他們重新建立聯繫的願望。

毛：我們可以重建它們，但問題仍然是我們如何處理債務給我們，因為他們過去曾經詛咒過我們，並且侮辱了我們。

CDE。周恩來：他們的債務存在利息問題。

毛：我們有這樣的計算。如果他們不再侮辱我們，至少他們應該談論他們欠我們的債務，就像你所做的一樣。沒有太多需要，只需要幾個字。

齊奧塞斯庫：有些人已經說過了，我們跟他們說過：他們已經準備好認識到過去的做法不好。

毛：不僅僅是他們不好，他們錯了。

齊奧塞斯庫：是的，錯了。

毛：他們錯了。事情以令人難以置信的方式發展。我們可以說，偉大的家庭，國際主義無產階級，團結的，實際上是分裂的。這不是什麼大問題，如果他們想要分裂的話，很多地方都會分裂。即使整個意大利黨想來中國，他們都歡迎來到這裡。他們被允許在報紙和雜誌上詛咒我們，但他們也必須允許其他人表達自由。無論國家大小如何，我們都會回應我們頭腦中的任何人（無論他們擁有多少炸彈）。您可以訪問我們的現代庇護所。我們已經建立了他們在戰爭的情況下。

你會參觀中國的西北部嗎？我們必須為任何可能性做好準備。

齊奧塞斯庫：分裂確實造成了很大的傷害。當然，犯了很多錯誤，但我們必須糾正錯誤，我相信我們都必須朝這個方向努力。

毛澤東：我們不會放任何東西，而且會繼續在我們的教條主義中;甚至一千年。[3]有一次，當[蘇聯總理阿列克謝]柯西金訪問時，我們把這個時間縮短了1000年;有一次，在羅馬尼亞代表團訪問期間，我們再次減少了1000年;我們立刻從這個時期減少了2000年。這是非常危險的，只剩下8000年了。

齊奧塞斯庫：我們可以減少一些！

毛：連一年都不能脫身。他們可以坐在我們的頭上，但我們必須回答。對於小國家我們不這樣做。我們不能對他們說一句話，但對於大國來說，我們沒有考慮任何事情。我們不會被任何信使感動[purtatori de cuvant]，他們給予建議;他們給我們的建議越多，事情就會越糟糕，因為我們這裡，我們所有人都是官僚和軍國主義者，我們背叛了馬克思列寧主義，我們沒有必要的素質成為偉大家庭的一部分。你這樣做，我們不。

齊奧塞斯庫：現在我們是民族主義者。

毛：你也被貼上標籤。

CDE。 Ion Gheroghe Maurer：減少[標籤]，但有一些Cde。毛澤東。

毛：你已經被貼上標籤，因為你正在抵抗壓力。對我們來說，標籤不是太多，也不算太少 - 8000年。每個人都應該聽。現在軍國主義占據了中心位置 - 我們肯定不會再減少[任何年份];他（指林彪）是軍閥的首腦。但我也是軍國主義者和官僚的一部分。他們非常聰明。赫魯曉夫以一種非常有創意的方式發展了馬克思列寧主義。我問柯西金這個和赫魯曉夫一樣好的人，他發展了馬克思列寧主義，為什麼你把他邊緣化呢？他很難給我任何動機。然後我告訴他：如果你不再需要他，把他給我們;我們邀請赫魯曉夫來北京大學舉辦馬克思列寧主義。科西金當時無法回答。我必須得出結論，這樣的國家不是一個好國家。我會告訴你一件事：我們在媒體上發表他們的文章，但他們不會在媒體上發表我們的回覆。這裡一定有一個原因。不得不否認有軍政官員專制國家的教條主義者發表的文章。整個蘇聯人民都應該了解他們，所以他們可以否認他們。但他們沒有發表。在這種情況下，他們甚至支持一些帝國主義國家。美國報紙敢於發表我們關於他們的文章。特別是，我提到紐約時報。

你在美國，但我們所有人都在這裡，我們沒有去過。我們在那邊發了一個乒乓球。

齊奧塞斯庫：看起來它的位置很好。

毛：你同意這個球嗎？

齊奧塞斯庫：我們同意。

毛：我讀過布達佩斯的一篇文章;即使在那裡他們也表現出與這個球的一致。在乒乓球比賽中有什麼偉大的？美國副總統 - [斯皮羅]阿格紐說，他不是為了它。在這裡的乒乓球代表團團長說，我們不玩乒乓球，而是乒乓球。他正在嘗試玩文字遊戲。

齊奧塞斯庫：是的，乒乓球是一款非常有趣的比賽，尤其是因為你擁有非常出色的球員。

毛：[4]但代表團團長是愚蠢的;我們批評他。他們做了這件事只追逐獎品，只想贏得勝利;他們不想失去;他們拿走了七個獎牌中的四個，他們並不滿意。怎麼可能只追逐獎賞？體育運動委員會的領導確實是官僚和大國沙文主義者。我國有這種大國沙文主義的例子，相當普遍;他們總是試圖擊敗其他國家。同時，他們無能為力，除了我們贏得的事實外，他們到處吹噓。其中一人在這裡，我和他吵架了。他只說中國的好事。我告訴他，他說的沒有道理。他舉了中國發射衛星的例子。我告訴他，目前有2000顆衛星繞地球旋轉，當時我們只把它們中的一顆放在軌道上，而你，法國人發射了一顆，而日本，另一顆，共三顆，超過2000顆衛星由其他國家發射。幸災樂禍是不好的;我們該如何幸福？

齊奧塞斯庫：這是事實，這只是一個開始，但這是一個好的開始，因為其他國家也從一個開始。

毛：那是非常真實的。我同意，這符合現實。

他們甚至去了月球;目前，我們沒有這種可能性。然而，與此同時，我們對此沒有興趣，我們也不讚賞那些登上月球的人。在這種情況下，我們是平等的;我們和你們都沒有到達月球。

齊奧塞斯庫：我們也沒有想到將來會這樣做，它非常昂貴。

周恩來：特別是因為那裡沒有水或空氣！

齊奧塞斯庫：沒有任何結果，除了科學目的和出於好奇之外。

周恩來：並非地球上所有的問題都已解決，他們已經登上了月球。

齊奧塞斯庫：但是這場對月球的比賽非常昂貴。

周恩來：壟斷者從中獲利豐厚，因為他們接到訂單;即使月球的土地也被分割了。

齊奧塞斯庫：即便如此，人們為這場比賽付出了很多。

毛：所有的人？

齊奧塞斯庫：那些承擔它的人。

毛：兩個人。什麼是超級大國？

齊奧塞斯庫：很難給出一個定Yi。

毛澤東：擁有更多核武器並接管了許多領土的人;他們可以控制其他國家，而其他國家則不能。

到現在為止，我們只以犧牲其他人為代價說不幸的話。我們已經開始詛咒超級大國了。

周恩來：在明天的發言中我會提到這一點。如果我們談到超級大國，他們就不會離開。

毛：沒關係;如果我們談到社會主Yi帝國主Yi，他們就不會離開。我們把它命名為社會主義帝國主Yi。我們沒有說這是列寧，換句話說，他們是社會主義者，他們是帝國主Yi者。

周恩來：我們在1968年8月23日由[羅馬尼亞]大使[奧雷利亞]杜馬主持招待會之際開始使用這個詞。它是由捷克斯洛伐克的事件引起的。

毛：在Cde之際。 [Emil] Bodnaras在這裡拜訪，他告訴我們什麼是Cde。周恩來說這些事件是有用的;我們沒有注意到，我們沒有感覺到;他告訴我們這很有用。

齊奧塞斯庫：我們讚賞Cde的演講。周恩來把他們視為對國家和共產主義運動的援助。畢竟，很多政黨都譴責這次入侵。

毛：我想知道他們入侵的原因是什麼，派兵到那裡並占據黑暗掩護的地方，部隊在英國降落。

齊奧塞斯庫：入侵前幾天我們在捷克斯洛伐克，我們與黨的領導層見了面，工人階級也沒有遇到社會主義的危險。

毛：但他們說有嚴重的危險，他們必須捍衛社會主Yi。

齊奧塞斯庫：只有一種危險，那就是對蘇聯的統治政策有嚴肅的批評。

毛：是的，就是這樣，只有這一點。那時他們有很好的計劃，不僅對捷克斯洛伐克，而且對你和南斯拉夫。

齊奧塞斯庫：也許他們考慮過這個問題，但是現在，我們一直都是，並且一直都不會接受任何這樣的行動。

毛：因為你準備好了，特別是在軍事領域。如果他們來了，你會首先爭取。

齊奧塞斯庫：我們是一個小國，但我們不想生活在外國統治下。當然，我們與大家保持友好關係，我們非常感謝朋友和友好關係，但我們認為，羅馬尼亞的問題首先由黨，工人階級，羅馬尼亞人民解決。

毛：在我看來，這很好。

齊奧塞斯庫：如果我們工作得不好，我們的工人階級，我們的人民將會評判我們。

毛：如果你準備好了，他們會害怕你。

越南也是一個小國，柬埔寨是一個更小的國家，老撾更小。他們進行了十年的戰爭，不包括對法國人的戰爭。有結論認為我們應該被視為warmongers。我們會回復任何來到這裡的人。我們正在幫助那些反對入侵的人。你正在幫助印度支那國家的鬥爭來拯救他們的祖國。

齊奧塞斯庫：從一開始我們就幫助了越南，老撾和現在的柬埔寨。我們還幫助打擊反對殖民主義的非洲人民的鬥爭。

毛：那很好。我們有相同的職位。

也許我們應該停下來。 CDE。周恩來說，你今天下午會發言。不要與他鬥爭！

齊奧塞斯庫：我不認為我們會和他作戰。

毛：第三次世界大戰即將開始。你們兩個會打架，我不會參加，因為我是一個官僚主Yi者。

齊奧塞斯庫：嗯，那很好，那麼會有人在我們之間建立和平。

毛：用Cde。毛雷爾，我們有類似的名字。我的名字也是從毛開始的。

齊奧塞斯庫：那麼，建立良好關係，進行合作就顯得尤為重要。我們非常讚賞我們兩國和各方之間的關係。

毛：不要太讚賞。就這樣，這很好。我們不打架。當然，有時候我們會戰鬥一點，就像今天下午我們會戰鬥一樣。必須進行討論。

齊奧塞斯庫：我希望我們會討論，但我不相信我們會戰鬥。

[1]目前還不清楚“他們”是誰。鑑於討論的背景，毛可能指的是蘇聯領導層。

[2]毛提到1960年6月26日在布加勒斯特舉行的兄弟黨大會。在大會期間，蘇聯代表團攻擊了中國代表團的偏離主義和派別主義。

[3]中國人有一萬年有永恆的慣用意義。

[4]該段有些困惑，因此不清楚毛是在談論哪個人或代表團。 美國隊對中國的歷史性訪問於1971年4月12日舉行。

Ceausescu: It’s true, in the past years we had good results. We are also concerned with changing education, to tie it better to production. We are preoccupied with attracting the working class to the management of the institutions, and tying the party to the popular masses.

We can say that, generally, things go forth in good order. Of course, we have lots of deficiencies, but we are trying hard, together with the working class, with the people, to ensure the construction of socialism.

Mao: If we talk about deficiencies, then we too can say we have plenty.

Ceausescu: There is not one country that does not have deficiencies. The difference is that some work to resolve them, while others try to hide them.

Mao: Deficiencies cannot be hidden, because sooner or later—in a day, a year, or future centuries—these deficiencies will be revealed. It is better if we tell people what’s what; people cannot be deceived. [Deceiving] can only go on for a short time. People cannot be deceived for decades.

Ceausescu: This is very true, especially today, with today’s communication and information methods, reality cannot be hidden for very long.

Mao: It is very true. Even they know this.[1]

Ceausescu: After all, conflicts appear where they try to hide reality from people.

Mao: In some places, conflicts did not appear yet.

Ceausescu: But it is inevitable that conflicts would appear.

Mao: That is so.

Ceausescu: Of course, if they will take no action to straighten up things, and remove [deficits].

Mao: There are certain [communist] parties that insult other parties; they think that truth is on their side, that the other parties always make mistakes. We are called dogmatic, warmongers, that we have a dictatorship. That is what they say, that here we have a military bureaucratic dictatorship.

Ceausescu: Unfortunately, it is true, that there still exists this practice of name-calling, of insulting other parties.

Mao: There are certain parties, like yours, that do not say that. Recently, I read a speech of yours. In a very open way, there was the recognition that there have been mistakes in the past; other parties cannot come to terms with such things. Certain parties insulted us for over ten years, and we did not respond with even a word. They are forced to insult us. We can show understanding toward such occurrences. At the same time, we are happy that we have the quality of being insulted. This is very good. The meeting that took place in Bucharest in 1960, was that not imposed on you?[2] At that time, Cde. Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej had lots of difficulties. Can we impugn you for this?!

Ceausescu: It is true that the meeting took place there, and in a way, we too are at fault, since we could have refused to hold that meeting. Today such a meeting could not, and does not, take place in Romania.

Mao: At that time it was hard to refuse to host the conference. On the occasion of the Chinese Communist Party’s 8th Congress, which took place in 1956, I had an interesting conversation with Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej. He told me some things straight from the heart. It was, of course, difficult to put up with such things. The Cominform was disbanded then, and that gave rise to debates. Criticism was necessary for this to happen.

Ceausescu: It is true that there were some hard times; even today there are some hard times. There are new designs to create different leadership formats that would take away the independence of other states and parties.

Mao: It would be good if the whole planet would be the domain of one single country!

Ceausescu: It’s hard; even what is available now it’s too much.

Mao: Is it really too much?!

Ceausescu: We feel that the best way is to have relations based on equality among all nations in the world.

Mao: Irrespective of their size, even [countries] as small as San Marino, which has a population of 16,000 people; we were sincerely glad to be able to establish diplomatic contacts with such a country.

Ceausescu: Of course, on this globe there are countries that are very large, large, medium countries, small and very small [countries], but all nations desire to build their lives freely; of course, in close cooperation with other states, with other nations, but without subordinating one to the other.

Mao: There is another issue, and that is that, on the occasion of the [Party] congresses, there are other parties invited; during the congress, for example during the Czechoslovak congress, insults and blaming takes place. Would it not be better to change this practice? Better not to invite any foreign delegations to the congresses. We did not invite anyone to the 9th Congress. It is true that the sky did not fall.

Ceausescu: It is true that such a tactic could be adopted, as long as the congresses are being used for insults, to hurl insults at other parties.

Mao: Recently, the Korean Workers’ Party did not invite foreign guests to their congress. Cde. Kim Il Sung visited our country last year; he asked us: “are you inviting anyone?” We told him: no, we are not inviting anyone; it is difficult to invite other people. The more they insult and judge other people, the worse things will go for them.

There are more guests present, and they do not have identical opinions; it is better to have bilateral relations, like, for example, the fight against imperialism; then we fight. They want to have united action; it is hard because there are different opinions. A few years back, we talked with a few comrades, we told them that we cannot reach such accords; even then the sky did not fall, and the planet continues to revolve.

Ceausescu: Of course, it would be good if we reached an end to the insults and labeling. I have to tell you that many parties are calling for this, that even at the [Moscow] congress of the [fraternal] parties in 1969, and at the CPSU congress, a lot of parties—even big parties—refused to ally with the condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party, and are trying to find ways to establish relations with the CCP.

Mao: It is better to do these things bilaterally, like for example the relationship between the two of us.

Ceausescu: This is exactly what these parties want, for example the Italian, Spanish, [and] others. When we left to come here, they asked us to transmit their desire to reestablish contacts.

Mao: We can reestablish them, but the question remains what we do with their debt to us, because they have cursed and insulted us a lot in the past.

Cde. Zhou Enlai: And there is the issue of interest on their debt.

Mao: We have such calculations. If they no longer insult us, at least they should say something about the debt they owe us, the same way you did. There is no need for much, just a few words.

Ceausescu: Some have already said it, and we talked to them: they are ready to recognize that the past way was not good.

Mao: Not just that they were not good, they were wrong.

Ceausescu: Yes, wrong.

Mao: They were wrong. Things developed in an unbelievable fashion. What can we say of the great family, of the internationalist proletariat, of unity, when in reality there was a schism. It’s not a big deal, if they want a schism, a separation in many parts. Even if the entire Italian party wants to come to China, they are welcome here. They are allowed to curse us in their newspapers and magazines, but they must allow others freedom of expression as well. We will respond to any who shit on our head (isi fac scaun in capul nostru), irrespective of the size of the country, irrespective of the number of bombs they have. You can visit our modern shelters. We have built them in case of a war.

Will you visit the North-West of China? We have to be prepared for any possibility.

Ceausescu: It is true that the schism has caused much damage. Of course, there have been many mistakes made, but we have to put right the mistakes and I believe that we all have to work in this direction.

Mao: We will not put anything right, and will continue in our dogmatism; even [for] ten thousand years.[3] One time, when [Soviet Premier Alexei] Kosygin visited, we reduced that time by 1000 years; one time, during the visit of the Romanian delegation, we reduced it again by 1000 years; at once we reduced 2000 years from this period. It is very dangerous, there are only 8000 years left.

Ceausescu: We can reduce some more!

Mao: Not even one year can be taken off. They can sit on our heads, but we must answer back. We do not do this when it comes to small countries. We cannot say a word toward them, but with regard to the big countries, we do not take anything into consideration. We will not be moved by any messengers [purtatori de cuvant], who give advice; the more advice they give us, the worse things will go, since we here, all of us, are bureaucrats and militarists, we betrayed Marxist-Leninism, we do not have the qualities necessary to be part of the great family. You do, we do not.

Ceausescu: Now we are nationalists.

Mao: You too are being labeled.

Cde. Ion Gheroghe Maurer: Fewer [labels], but there are some, Cde. Mao Zedong.

Mao: You have so been labeled because you are resisting the pressure. For us, the labels are not too many, and not too few—8000 years. Everybody should listen up. Now militarism has taken center stage—it is certain that we will no longer reduce [any years]; he (points to Lin Biao) is the head of the militarists. But I too, am part of the militarists and the bureaucrats. They are very smart. Khrushchev developed Marxism-Leninism in a very creative way. I asked [Kosygin], a man as good as Khrushchev, who developed Marxism-Leninism, why have you marginalized him? It was difficult for him to give me any motives. Then I told him: if you no longer need him, give him to us; we invite Khrushchev to come to Beijing University, to hold classes on Marxism-Leninism. Kosygin could not answer then. I have to conclude that such a country is not a good one. I will tell you one thing: we publish [their] articles in our press, but they do not publish our replies in their press. Here there must be a reason. Articles published by dogmatists, by countries where there is a military-bureaucratic dictatorship, have to be repudiated. The entire Soviet people should know them, so they can repudiate them. But they did not publish them. In this instance, they are even behind some imperialist countries; American newspapers have dared publish our articles about them. Especially, I speak of the New York Times.

You have been in the United States of America, but all of us here, we have not been. We sent a ping-pong ball over there.

Ceausescu: It seems it was well placed.

Mao: Do you agree with this ball?

Ceausescu: We agree.

Mao: I read an article published in Budapest; even there they are showing their agreement with this ball. What is so great in the game of ping-pong? The US Vice President—[Spiro] Agnew—said that he is not for it. The leader of the ping-pong delegation that was here said that we do not play ping-pong, rather table tennis. He was trying a play on words.

Ceausescu: Yes, ping-pong is a very interesting game, especially since you have very good players.

Mao:[4] But the leader of the delegation was stupid; we criticized him. They have done this thing chasing only prizes, thinking only to win; they did not want to lose; they took four of the seven medals, and they were not satisfied. How is that possible, to chase only prizes[?] The leaders from the Committee for Physical Education and Sport are, indeed, bureaucrats and great power chauvinists. Our country has such instances of great power chauvinism, quite widespread; they are always trying to defeat other countries. At the same time, they were incapable, since aside from the fact that we won, they boasted everywhere. One of them was here, and I had a fight with him. He said only good things about China. I told him that there is not truth in what he’s saying. He gave the example of China’s launch of a satellite. I told him that presently there are 2000 satellites revolving around the Earth, and we only placed one of them in orbit at that time, while you, the French, launched one, and Japan, another one, a total of three, and over 2000 satellites are launched by other countries. It is not good to gloat; how can we gloat?

Ceausescu: It is true, it’s only a beginning, but it is a good beginning, because the other countries started with one as well.

Mao: That is very true. I agree, this corresponds to reality.

They even went to the moon; presently, we do not have such possibilities. At the same time, however, we do not have an interest in doing so, and we do not admire those who got to the moon. In this instance, we are equal in right; neither us, nor you, have reached the moon.

Ceausescu: We do not think of doing this in the future either, it is very expensive.

Zhou Enlai: Especially since there is no water or air there!

Ceausescu: And without any results, aside from scientific ends, and out of curiosity.

Zhou Enlai: Not all issues here on Earth have been resolved, and they have already gotten to the Moon.

Ceausescu: But this race to the Moon is very expensive.

Zhou Enlai: The monopolists are making nice profits from this, because they receive orders; even the land of the Moon has been divided up.

Ceausescu: Even so, the people are paying a lot for this race.

Mao: All the people?

Ceausescu: Those who undertake it.

Mao: Two people. What are the superpowers?

Ceausescu: It’s hard to give a definition.

Mao: Those that have more nuclear weapons and have taken over many territories; they can control other countries, while other countries cannot.

Until now we have only said unlucky words at the expense of others. We have begun by cursing the superpowers.

Zhou Enlai: In my speech tomorrow I will make a reference to this. They will not leave if we speak of the superpowers.

Mao: That’s fine; they will not leave if we speak of socialist-imperialism. We gave it a name—socialist-imperialism. We did not say this, it was Lenin; in words they are socialists, in deeds they are imperialists.

Zhou Enlai: We began using this term with the occasion of the reception hosted by [Romanian] Ambassador [Aurelian] Duma on 23 August 1968. It was brought forth by the events in Czechoslovakia.

Mao: On the occasion of Cde. [Emil] Bodnaras visit here, he told us that what Cde. Zhou Enlai said with regard to these events was useful; we did not notice, we did not feel that; he told us it was useful.

Ceausescu: We appreciated the speech of Cde. Zhou Enlai, and looked at them as aid to our country and to the communist movement. After all, many, many parties have condemned the invasion.

Mao: I wonder what the reasons were for their invasion, to send troops there and to occupy places under cover of darkness; troops were parachuted in.

Ceausescu: We were in Czechoslovakia a few days before the invasion, and we met with the party leadership, with the working class, there was no danger to socialism.

Mao: But they said that there was a grave danger, that they have to defend socialism.

Ceausescu: There was only one danger, and that was that there were serious criticisms against the [Soviet] policy of domination.

Mao: Yes, that was it, and only this. At that time they had great plans, not only against Czechoslovakia, but also against you and Yugoslavia.

Ceausescu: Maybe they thought about it, but then, and now, we were, and continue to be, set not to accept any such actions.

Mao: Because you are prepared, especially in the military field. If they shall come, you will fight first and foremost.

Ceausescu: We are a small country, but we do not want to live under [foreign] domination. Of course, we have friendly relations with everyone, we greatly appreciate friends and friendly relations, but we consider that Romania’s problems are first and foremost to be solved by the party, the working class, the Romanian people.

Mao: In my opinion, that is good.

Ceausescu: If we work poorly, our working class, our people, will judge us.

Mao: If you are prepared, they will fear you.

Vietnam is also a small country; Cambodia is an even smaller country, and Laos is smaller still. They carried out a ten-year war, not including the war against the French. There are conclusions that we should be considered warmongers. We will respond to anyone who comes here. We are helping those who fight against the invasion. You are helping the fight of the Indochinese countries to save their motherland.

Ceausescu: From the very beginning we have helped Vietnam, Laos, and now Cambodia. We also offer aid to the fight of African people who fight against colonialism.

Mao: That is very good. We have identical positions.

Maybe we should stop here. Cde. Zhou Enlai said that you will speak this afternoon. Do fight with him!

Ceausescu: I don’t think we will fight with him.

Mao: The third world war will start. The two of you will fight, I will not take part, since I am a bureaucrat.

Ceausescu: Well, that’s good, then there will be someone to make peace between us.

Mao: With Cde. Maurer, we have similar names. My name begins with Mao as well.

Ceausescu: Then, it is even more important to have good relations, to collaborate well. We appreciate very much the relations between our two countries and parties.

Mao: Don’t give it too much appreciation. Just so, it is well. We do not fight. Of course, sometimes we fight a little, like we’ll fight this afternoon. There have to be discussions.

Ceausescu: I hope we’ll have discussions, but I don’t believe we’ll fight.

[1] It is unclear who “they” are. Given the context of discussions, it is possible that Mao is referring to the Soviet leadership.

[2] Mao refers to the Congress of the Fraternal Parties that took place in Bucharest, 26 June 1960. During the congress, the Soviet delegation attacked the Chinese delegation for deviationism and factionalism.

[3] 10,000 years in Chinese has an idiomatic meaning of eternity.

[4] The paragraph is somewhat confused, making it unclear which person or delegation Mao is talking about. The historic visit of the US team to China took place on 12 April 1971.

小麻繩兒捆綁中國黨和政府親密戰友、羅馬尼亞偉大舵手領航人齊奧塞斯庫總統同志夫婦

你或許未見過的羅馬尼亞反黨分子反革命人民推翻中央政府暴亂紀實

你或許未見過的羅馬尼亞反黨分子反革命人民推翻中央政府暴亂紀實