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駁亞他那修“基督人性被造"論
送交者: repentant 2020年12月14日11:27:04 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話

亞他那修一篇“反亞流”的論文,因為是反駁,摻雜調和了正反雙方的觀點。主要論調是:作為神的道的基督不是被造的(反亞流的觀點),而基督成為人的人性卻是被造的(亞氏的主張)。前者是對的,後者錯誤。任你口水四濺,還得看你引用的經文不是?

可惜經文寥寥,只有兩句箴言8:22和希伯來書3:2,所以反駁起來相當容易。

箴言 - 第 8 章 第 22 節
在耶和華造化的起頭,在太初創造萬物之先,就有了我。
The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,, before his deeds of old;

註:這是所羅門的箴言,亞氏的論證是:既然所羅門是被造,那麼基督同樣也是被造的了。這裡his works,亞氏認為就是“被造之物”。

這個定義是荒謬的!所羅門這裡並不是說他是被造之物,否則你如何解釋所羅門是在太初創造萬物之先,就造了所羅門呢?人都不存在,何況所羅門!

這裡his works,顯然是指父神的預定。所羅門在創世前的永恆里,父神已經預定了他,即是他的工作。神的工作就是:在他的旨意里預定/揀選了所羅門。永恆里的預定,必定要在時空中實現。正在寫箴言的時空中的所羅門,正是意識到了他就是神預定和揀選的實現。

同樣道理,降世的耶穌也是神在創世前永恆里的預定和揀選,此處略去不論。

緊接着的經文也驗證了這一點。值得注意的是,所羅門用“我已生出”來表達神對他的預定揀選。很簡單,神的預定揀選是創世前的旨意或計劃藍圖,即神創世前就在神的思想意念里有了念頭的產生:即所羅門的出生(be born)。你可以想像一個“所羅門出生的場景”,這只是神的意念,在神的意念里,所羅門已經出生了。

這同樣可以解釋耶穌基督的出生,那是神創世前預定好的。這“出生”是神的計劃。亞氏也對“出生”加以論述,卻是等同與“受造”。這犯了邏輯錯誤,創世前沒有人,就沒有創造(受造),只有神在頭腦意念里的旨意計劃。所以亞氏以此經文論述基督的人性被造是大錯特錯的!

可見,無論是HIS WORKS還是BE BORN,在創世前都不是指神的創造,而只有尚未實現的旨意和計劃。

1. 詩篇 - 第 2 章 第 7 節
受膏者說,我要傳聖旨。耶和華曾對我說,你是我的兒子,我今日生你。
2. 使徒行傳 - 第 13 章 第 33 節
神已經向我們這作兒女的應驗,叫耶穌復活了。正如詩篇第二篇上記着說,你是我的兒子,我今日生你。
3. 希伯來書 - 第 1 章 第 5 節
所有的天使,神從來對那一個說,你是我的兒子,我今日生你。又指着那一個說,我要作他的父,他要作我的子。
4. 希伯來書 - 第 5 章 第 5 節
如此,基督也不是自取榮耀作大祭司,乃是在乎向他說,你是我的兒子,我今日生你。的那一位。


箴言 - 第 8 章
22在耶和華造化的起頭,在太初創造萬物之先,就有了我。
The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,, before his deeds of old;

23從亙古,從太初,未有世界以前,我已被立
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
24沒有深淵,沒有大水的泉源,我已生出
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25大山未曾奠定,小山未有之先,我已生出。
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26耶和華還沒有創造大地,和田野,並世上的土質,我已生出。
before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.


希伯來書 - 第 3 章 第 2 節
2他為那設立他的盡忠,如同摩西在神的全家盡忠一樣。
He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.

這是亞氏引用的另一句經文,他說英文的“設立”是“he made"。查看NIV和KJV,都是appoint。亞氏解釋為創造也是牽強附會。即便是made,也未必是創造。這應該對應上面箴言的8:23,即設立SET UP或指定。

總之,亞氏僅僅根據這兩句經文,就貿然得出耶穌的“人性被造論”是不成立。

要是基督人性被造,那就更不支持召會的“調和論”了。基督的靈(神性)能“摻雜調和”上受造的人性(人靈)? 或者人性(人靈)“摻雜調和”了神性(神靈)更無可能了。何況,耶穌的靈=基督的靈=神的道。實際上,亞氏在論述神的道不是被造物時,已經表明道是永恆的,那就沒有改變。

可見,亞氏的“基督人性被造論”即便是成立的,也根本不支持召會的“調和論”和“成神論”。:))

聖經很清楚,有神,有人,卻沒有雜合的神人。神創造時沒有,以後當然也沒有了。


附錄

亞他那修” 反亞流”

Chapter XIV.—Texts explained; Fourthly, Hebrews iii. 2 fin. and other texts. On the whole made 奴僕被造神將要審判之物被造之物( faithful4章和其他經文一樣,把解釋為可以信託( Thus they misunderstand the passage in the Proverbs, ‘The Lord hath created me a beginning of His ways for His work[211],’ and the words of the Apostle, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him[212],’ and straightway argue, that the Son of God is a work and a creature. But although they might have learned from what is said above, had they not utterly lost their power of apprehension, that the Son is not from nothing nor in the number of things originate at all, the Truth witnessing[213]  For all these texts have the same force and meaning, a religious one, declarative of the divinity of the Word, even those of them which speak humanly concerning Him, as having become the Son of man. But, though this distinction is sufficient for their refutation, still, since from a misconception of the Apostle’s words (to mention them first), they consider the Word of God to be one of the works, because of its being written, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him,’ I have thought it needful to silence this further argument of theirs, taking in hand[223], as before, their statement.

我認為,針對亞流派的那些瘋狂的假教師們,如何抵擋真理的瘋狂行為所說的已經夠多了。我希望他們能夠停止那些邪惡的思想,以及對褻瀆救主的話,並且悔改。他們若仍然不願意順服,要像狗一樣回頭吞吃他們自己嘔吐出來的穢物。繼續為着他們的不敬虔,發明各樣的說辭。那麼,就是
他們誤解了箴言的這句話,create)了我他為那造了(譯者:英文為。他們毫無掩飾的爭辯,神的兒子只不過是一個成品和一個被造之物。雖然他們可能學習過上述的經文,他們完全喪失了他們的思考能力,就是子不是從虛無而有的,也不是有起始之物中的一個。真理也如此見證(因為,作為神,他不可能是一件成品,稱他為被造之物也是不敬虔的。當我們說的時候,我們是指一個被造之物或是成品。) 而,若他們願意拋棄他們荒誕的小說,就會認同上述具有良善意義的經文。因為他們乃是執迷不悟的,讓我們重新探討那個問題背後的意義。用這一段一段的經文, 提醒忠信的人,他們(亞流派)根本不認識基督教的信仰。不然,他們就不會像今日不信的猶太人一樣閉嘴無聲,而會去探求並學習,‘太初有道,道與神同在,道 就是神,’這句話指的就是父喜悅道成為人。這也就是約翰描述祂的,‘道成了肉身。’彼得也說,‘神已經立他為主,為基督了,’-就像所羅門論到主自己的位 格時,說,‘在耶和華造化的起頭,在太初創造萬物之先,就造(譯者:英文為create)了我’;而保羅說,‘就遠超過天使’;又說,‘反倒虛己,取了奴 仆的形像,成為人的樣式’;又說,‘同蒙天召的聖潔弟兄啊,你們應當思想我們所認為使者、為大祭司的耶穌。他為那設立他的盡忠,如同摩西在神的全家盡忠一 樣。’因為這些經文的意義都是敬虔的和具有影響力的。在他成為人子,人卻把他當作一個普通的人的時候,宣告了道的神格(他為那設立他的盡忠。Accordingly the words, ‘Who is faithful to Him that made Him,’ implies no parallel with others, nor means that by having faith He became well-pleasing; but that, being Son of the True God, He too is faithful, and ought to be believed in all He says and does, Himself remaining unalterable and not changed[254] 那造祂的對祂是信實的Son),祂也是信實的,我們可以相信祂所說所作的一切。在祂人性的經綸和肉身的顯現中,祂自己則仍然是不可改變,也未曾改變過。

7. Thus then we may meet these men who are shameless, and from the single expression ‘He made,’ may shew that they err in thinking that the Word of God is a work. But further, since the drift also of the context is orthodox, shewing the time and the relation to which this expression points, I ought to shew from it also how the heretics lack reason; viz. by considering, as we have done above, the occasion when it was used and for what purpose. Now the Apostle is not discussing things before the creation when he thus speaks, but when ‘the Word became flesh;’ for thus it is written, ‘Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession Jesus, who was faithful to Him that made Him.’ Now when became He ‘Apostle,’ but when He put on our flesh? and when became He ‘High Priest of our profession,’ but when, after offering Himself for us, He raised His Body from the dead, and, as now, Himself brings near and offers to the Father those who in faith approach Him, redeeming all, and for all propitiating God? Not then as wishing to signify the Essence of the Word nor His natural generation from the Father, did the Apostle say, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him’—(perish the thought! for the Word is not made, but makes)—but as signifying His descent to mankind and High-priesthood which did ‘become’—as one may easily see from the account given of the Law and of Aaron. I mean, Aaron was not born a high-priest, but a man; and in process of time, when God willed, he became a high-priest; yet became so, not simply, nor as betokened by his ordinary garments, but putting over them the ephod, the breastplate
[255], the robe, which the women wrought at God’s command, and going in them into the holy place, he offered the sacrifice for the people; and in them, as it were, mediated between the vision of God and the sacrifices of men. Thus then the Lord also, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;’ but when the Father willed that ransoms should be paid for all and to all, grace should be given, then truly the Word, as Aaron his robe, so did He take earthly flesh, having Mary for the Mother of His Body as if virgin earth[256], that, as a High Priest, having He as others an offering, He might offer Himself to the Father, and cleanse us all from sins in His own blood, and might rise from the dead.

故此,讓我們再來用‘祂造了(made)’這句話會會這些無恥的人,就能表 明他們錯誤的認為神的道是一個成品。除此以外,因為這種偏差的背景是大公教義,我也會使用這種說法出現的時間和掛下,表明異端是如何的缺乏理性。如同我們 前面已經做過的,我們要思考它們被使用的場合及目的。如今使徒只在說‘道成肉身’的時候才論到萬有被創造之前的事。故此經上記着,‘同蒙天召的聖潔弟兄 啊,你們應當思想我們所認為使者(譯者:即使徒)、為大祭司的耶穌。他為那設立他的盡忠。’祂成為‘使徒’的時候難到不就是祂披上了我們的肉身的時候嗎? 而他成為‘大祭司’的時候,不就是祂為我們獻上自己,將祂的身體從死人中復活,聚集那些在信心中前來就近祂的人,將他們獻給父神,拯救他們,並使神的憤怒 止息的時候嗎?所以這樣的期望(譯者:指神對人的救贖)既不是道的性質,也不是祂從父的出生,使徒也說,‘向着那位造祂者盡忠(Who was faithful to Him that made Him)’--(滅絕這樣的想法!因為道不是被造的,而是創造萬有的)--這乃是指祂的降世為人和大祭司,這就是‘成為(became)’--如同人馬可 以輕易的從律法和亞倫所提供的細節看見這點。我的意思是,亞倫並不是生下來就是大祭司,而是一個人。而是等他長大後,神願意,他才成為大祭司。這個成為並 不是因着他自己那件平凡的外袍,而是披上婦人們根據神的命令,所做的祭司袍,胸牌,和內袍。亞倫要披着這些進入聖所,為百姓獻上祭物,成為神洞察的眼光和 人的祭物中的中間人。故此主也說,‘太初有道,道與神同在,道就是神;’當父願意為萬人付上贖價的時候,恩典就被賜下。如同亞倫披上了他的袍子一樣,道取 了屬塵土的肉身,讓馬利亞成為祂身體的母親。作為大祭司,祂以自己為祭,將自己獻給父神,用祂的寶血洗淨我們一切的罪,叫我們也能夠從死人中復活。

8. For what happened of old was a shadow of this; and what the Saviour did on His coming, this Aaron shadowed out according to the Law. As then Aaron was the same and did not change by putting on the high-priestly dress
[257], but remaining the same was only robed, so that, had any one seen him offering, and had said, ‘Lo, Aaron has this day become high-priest,’ he had not implied that he then had been born man, for man he was even before he became high-priest, but that he had been made high-priest in his ministry, on putting on the garments made and prepared for the high-priesthood; in the same way it is possible in the Lord’s instance also to understand aright, that He did not become other than Himself on taking the flesh, but, being the same as before, He was robed in it;was made High Priest, by putting on a body which was originate and made, and such as He can offer for us; wherefore He is said to be made. and who again, on such a question, would not have answered, that the Father made Him man, and sent Him to us as High Priest? And this meaning, and time, and character, the Apostle himself, the writer of the words, ‘Who is faithful to Him that made Him,’ will best make plain to us, if we attend to what goes before them. For there is one train of thought, and the lection is all about One and the Same. He writes then in the Epistle to the Hebrews thus; ‘Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death wereall their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took not on Him the nature of Angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted,He is able to succour them that are tempted. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Jesus; who was faithful to Him that made Him[261].’

舊 約發生的一切乃是這些事的影兒。救主的來臨乃是亞倫根據律法所預表的。就像亞倫並沒有因為披上大祭司的袍子而改變,除了穿上袍子外,他還是一樣的。也就是 說,那些看見亞倫獻祭,並說,‘看啊!今天亞倫變成了大祭司’的人,並不是代表他生為人,他成為大祭司之前才是人。而是他在他的職事中披上為大祭司所製造 的袍子,被立為大祭司。同樣的,在主身上,我們也要有正確的認識。祂在披上肉身後並不會成為祂所不是的,而是永遠不變。
這樣的表述不能被理解為道是被造的,但是這位是萬有的塑造者之道,借着披上一個有起源、被造的身體被造成大祭司,好叫祂能為我們獻上自己;故此,祂被稱為被造的。若主並沒有成為人,這是亞流派爭辯的重點。若,除了外,我們還能如何描述祂的成為人?是的對道本身正確的描述,那麼對於人的正確描述就是become被造(有誰在看見主如同一個人一樣的四處行走,在祂的工作里卻又顯明為神的時候,不會問,是誰把他造成一個人?而當然聽見這個問題,難道不會回答,是父把祂造成一個人,並把祂當作大祭司,差遣到我們中間? 我們先搞清楚其先決條件,這個意義,時間,人物和使徒自己,以及寫下‘祂向那位造祂者盡忠’的作者對於我們就是非常容易理解的。因為只有一條思路,而經文 都是有關與那一位永不改變者。祂接着又在希伯來書中寫到,“兒女既同有血肉之體,他也照樣親自成了血肉之體,特要藉著死敗壞那掌死權的,就是魔鬼,並要釋 放那些一生因怕死而為奴僕的人。他並沒有取了天使的性質,乃是成為伯拉罕的後裔。所以,他凡事該與他的弟兄相同,為要在神的事上成為慈悲忠信的大祭司,為百姓的罪獻上挽回祭。他自己既然被試探而受苦,就能搭救被試探的人。同蒙天召的聖潔弟兄啊,你們應當思想我們所認為使者、為大祭司的耶穌。祂為那造祂的盡忠。”

9. Who can read this whole passage without condemning the Arians, and admiring the blessed Apostle, who has spoken well? for when was Christ ‘made,’ when became He ‘Apostle,’ except when, like us, He ‘took part in flesh and blood?’ And when became He ‘a merciful and faithful High Priest,’ except when ‘in all things He was made like unto His brethren?’ And then was He ‘made like,’ when He became man, having put upon Him our flesh. Wherefore Paul was writing concerning the Word’s human Economy, when he said, ‘Who was faithful to Him that made Him,’ and not concerning His Essence. Have not therefore any more the madness to say that the Word of God is a work; whereas He is Son by nature Only-begotten, and then had ‘brethren,’ when He took on Him flesh like ours; which moreover, by Himself offering Himself, He was named and became ‘merciful and faithful,’ —merciful, because in mercy to us He offered Himself for us, and faithful, not as sharing faith with us, nor as having faith in any one as we have, but as deserving to receive faith in all He says and does, and as offering a faithful sacrifice, one which remains and does not come to nought. For those which were offered according to the Law, had not this faithfulness, passing away with the day and needing a further cleansing; but the Saviour’s sacrifice, taking place once, has perfected everything, and is become faithful as remaining forever. And Aaron had successors, and in a word the priesthood under the Law exchanged its first ministers as time and death went on; but the Lord having a high priesthood without transition and without succession, has become a ‘faithful High Priest,’ as continuing for ever; and faithful too by promise, that He may hear
[262] and not mislead those who come to Him. This may be also learned from the Epistle of the great Peter, who says, ‘Let them that suffer according to the will of God, commit their souls to a faithful Creator[263].’ For He is faithful as not changing, but abiding ever, and rendering what He has promised.

誰能夠在讀完這整段話後,不定罪亞流派,並讚揚蒙福的使徒能把話講的如此清楚?因為當基督‘被造’的時候,在祂成為‘使徒’的時候,像我們一樣‘取了血肉之體?’難道他不是在‘凡事該與他的弟兄相同’的時候,才成為‘慈悲忠信的大祭司’? 當祂成為人的時候,難道不是因為祂披上了我們的肉身,才與我們‘相同’。故此保羅在寫到道人性的經綸(Word's human Economy)的時候,說到‘祂為那造祂的盡忠’這句話的是,並不是指祂的本質。別讓任何的瘋子在宣稱神的道是個作品;祂因着獨生的性質是兒子 (Son),當取了並披上我們的肉身時,成為‘弟兄(brethren)’。祂又因為獻上了自己,而被稱作‘慈悲和忠信的’--慈悲乃是因為在祂對我們的 憐憫中祂獻上了自己,忠信不是因為祂與我們同享一樣的信仰,也不是像我們一樣的擁有信心,而是祂所說的、所做的就像獻上一個信實的祭物,配得我們的信託。 祂是永遠長存,絕不會落空的那位。而那些根據律法獻上祭物的,卻得不到這樣的信實,必須隨着時間的往前而不斷的潔淨自己。然而救主的獻祭是一次永遠有功效 的,完全了整個律法,祂的工作是永遠信實的。亞倫與他的後裔,必須在律法下,在死亡的時候交接其職事。而主的祭司職份是更高超的,不需要交接也不需要繼 承,祂成為‘慈悲忠信的大祭司’,是用於的。祂的應許是信實的,叫祂能夠聽見(我們的祈求),也不會誤導那些來就近祂的人。我們也能從偉大的彼得的書信中 看見,‘所以那照神旨意受苦的人要一心為善,將自己靈魂交與那信實的創造主。(譯者:根據英文重譯。)’因為祂是信實不改變的,永遠住在(我們裡面),並 成就祂所應許的。

10. Now the so-called gods of the Greeks, unworthy the name, are faithful neither in their essence nor in their promises; for the same are not everywhere, nay, the local deities come to nought in course of time, and undergo a natural dissolution; wherefore the Word cries out against them, that ‘faith is not strong in them,’ but they are ‘waters that fail,’ and ‘there is no faith in them.’ But the God of all, being one really and indeed and true, is faithful, who is ever the same, and says, ‘See now, that I, even I am He,’ and I ‘change not
[264];’ and therefore His Son is ‘faithful,’ being ever the same and unchanging, deceiving neither in His essence nor in His promise; —as again says the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians, ‘Faithful is He who calleth you, who also will do it[265];’ for in doing what He promises, ‘He is faithful to His words.’ And he thus writes to the Hebrews as to the word’s meaning ‘unchangeable;’ ‘If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful; He cannot deny Himself[266].’the Word was not as one of things originate in a body, nor as creature in creature, but as God in flesh[270], and Framer of all and Builder in that which was built by Him. And men are clothed in flesh in order to be and to subsist; but the Word of God was made man in order to sanctify the flesh, and, though He was Lord, was in the form of a servant; for the whole creature is the Word’s servant, which by Him came to be, and was made.

如 今,那些希臘人所謂的神(gods),我們根本不屑提它們的名字,它們的性質和應許都不是信實的。而各地的那些當地的神祗,不但在時間的流逝中歸於無有, 最終自然消亡。道卻向它們呼喊(譯者:有叫陣的意思),‘它們裡面缺乏信實’,它們不過是‘掉落的水珠,’和‘在它們裡面沒有信實。’然而萬有的神,是確 實、實在、和真實的那位,是信實的,祂永遠不變,並說,‘看啊,我永遠就是祂,’和我‘永不改變。’所以祂的兒子是‘信實的,’永遠長存並永不改變,祂的 性質和應許都不會矇騙我們。就像使徒寫給帖撒羅尼家人書中再次提到的,‘那召你們的本是信實的,他必成就這事。’因着成就祂所應許的,‘祂對祂的話是信實 的。’所以他寫給希伯來人的信中也提到道‘不可改變’的意義:‘他仍是可信的,因為他不能背乎自己。’故此,使徒能夠理直氣壯的描述道在肉身的顯現,稱祂為這表明甚至當祂被造為人的時候,不改變的。
如同使徒在他的書信中提到祂的大祭司職分時,說到祂的被造成為人,並沒有忽視祂的神格。反而先提到它,提醒我們不能犧牲任何一面。更重要的是,當他提到祂的人性的時候,我們自然會知道祂的尊高和祂的君尊都是父的。例如,他說,‘摩西為僕人,而基督確是兒子,前者‘對他的家盡忠,’而後者乃是‘對全家(盡忠,譯者:指神的家),’因為祂建立了神的家,是它的主和塑造者,也如同神一樣聖別它。對於摩西,性質上是一個人,成為忠信的,乃是因相信那位借着自己的道跟他說話的神。而道並不是一件在身體中有起源的事物,而是神在肉身之中,祂是一切被祂所建造之事物的塑造者和建造者。人類必須穿上肉身才能夠存在並存活。但是神的道被造為人,乃是為了聖別(人類的)肉身。雖然祂是主,但是卻在奴僕的形像之中。因為萬有都是道的奴僕,借着祂存有,借着祂被造。

11. and in consequence He is called our brother, as having become man.
 the Son is not a work, but in Essence indeed the Father’s offspring, while in the Economy, according to the good pleasure
[271] 祂造(的這個表述是正確的,它並不是說道是被造的,而是指那個祂所取的與我們一樣的身體。故此,祂成為人,被稱作是我們的兄弟。即使當made生(現今的討論已經從每一個角度陳明了這個字的意義,並指明子(Economy)中,祂為了我們的緣故被造、並被組成為一個人。我要再看看他們還能掰出其他錯誤的推論?因着這個原因,使徒說,在箴言中,甚至稱祂為被造之物。只要我們承認祂成為人,不論我們說has been made),被造(formed),奴僕,使女之子(was constituted),走了祂的旅程,新郎兄弟的兒子,兄弟,<span "="">
都是沒有問題的。這些詞彙都能夠合適的別用來描述人的構成。它們都不代表道的素質,而是祂的成為人。

 


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    我當然天天要悔改認罪,不像某位人死不悔改 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (92)
      又是漂亮話!你對調和論異端的錯誤悔改了嗎?  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (76)
    耶穌是神還是人?請教 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (105)
      不調和會死啊?  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (101)
        沒用調和的神人一說。 - repentant 12/14/20 (88)
        英文聖經 ming ling,說的 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (161)
          你們的調和論是把混合物,變成了化合物。 - repentant 12/14/20 (109)
            化學博士!尊重下 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (87)
              中學的化學,不需要博士。普通人的常識,只有你家油麵是特種物質 - repentant 12/14/20 (79)
              根本沒有調和瑪利亞,是感孕之。你也崇拜瑪利亞嗎? - repentant 12/14/20 (100)
                耶穌即便老死,其靈也是道,也要歸父。 - repentant 12/14/20 (95)
              聖經證據呢? 中間態的調和不存在,那是雜合。 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
          回中學看看什麼是混合物 - repentant 12/14/20 (103)
          早己告訴你,此調和,非彼調和。你卻不懂啊!  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (90)
          油和面當然是合在一起的,聖經用MINGLE沒錯。 - repentant 12/14/20 (98)
          眼瞎!這裡的混合或調和=合一。不是油變成面。 - repentant 12/14/20 (104)
            油分子不能變成面分子,或帶上了面分子的一部分。 - repentant 12/14/20 (84)
            油分子變成面分子,或帶上了面分子的一部分。 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
  不服的,可以為亞氏提供額外的經文證據。謝謝!  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (91)
    請自己去讀我貼的每一內容,經文在內 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (90)
      你逃避太多了。一個簡單問題就是無法辨明。可嘆!  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (85)
        我真幫不了您老了  /無內容 - 克利西亞 12/14/20 (105)
          我上面的跟貼幫了你沒有? 搞清混合物了沒有?  /無內容 - repentant 12/14/20 (97)
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