1.In China, we don't need to argue about this.

The degree system, especially in medicine, is bizarre and hard to understand. Well, we didn't create the system. We copied it from western countries. I would say we copied it blindly. And as I know, there is much more bizarre things in China. Like, the PhD instructor, the Master instructor,if I translate it right.I don't see the equivalent in US.

China is a different country. And now is building a China-featured socialism. Of course, everything should be a little different. Be real, every counrty is different.That shouldn't be a issue.

Well, now it seems there is a trend to blindly copy the US medical school model back to China. Let us see. It would eventually be bizarre and cause more confusion in China and much more outside China. Why don't we do something real and build it on our own situation? I don't think everything the American are doing is right and applied universally back to China. The 5-year medical education system in China is perfectly good to chinese people as I know. To me, it doesn't make any differece for us to have a 5 year medical school or 20 year medical school. Medicine is a profession. The experience and technology is the most important. The American system is great becaue this country is great, it has a very good postgraduate training and certifying system and medical science as a whole is leading the world.I am not sure why the Amercian chosse 4+4 medical education system. But I know that those 6-year medical education are primarily for training primary care physician. And some 6-7 year MD/PHD training programs are mainly for medical principal investigator, not physician, although you can be a physician, too. And the medical school from Cleveland Clinic foundation is for training medical researcher too. Actually, the medical education in the US is very flexible. This country is very real and flexible, right? As an American, you can get medical education from an island nowhere in the Latin America. And if you pass both step 1 and 2 and get clerksip in the US, you are still entitled to be conferred the Doctor of Medicine from the state university of New york, if you apply. It is called the fifth pathway. Don't forget that the foreign country trained physician is an integral part of US medical system. It is like the 5 year medical education in China.The 4+4 is like 6 and 7 year medical training in China. And the MD/PHD and CCF medical school is like the Tsinghua new medical school and the Concord(xie he) medical school.

Also,American is great at its postgraduate training system. The postgraduate training, the so-called residency, is tough and strict and is the most important part by my view.You can be a doctor and provide patient care, not because you have a MD degree. It is because you pass the at least 3 year residency training.

Lets see Chinese training system. It is totally broken. I don't see real postgraduate training in most parts of China. It seems eveybody understand the thing this way: once you graduate from medical school, you can provide patient care, you can be a good doctor. In reality, it is totally wrong. Without the US style residency training, the medical graduate is really nothing, except that he memorizes some medical terms or maybe a little bit more.

So, blindly copy is definitely wrong, especially that China is a poor country, has weak medical research and poorly administerd medical system and postgraduate training.

As I see, it is important to introduce the US style residency postgrduate training system. Not blindly copy the 4+4 medical education.( Plus, it may provide some fairness to the job hunting.)

2. In US, we don't need to argue about this, either.

It is common practice that a person graduated from any medical school in the world is called MD and entitled to be a postdoc.And eveybody knows that those MD from most foreign countries have bachlor of Medicine or Bachlor of Surgery. And everybody knows that the degree is xxxxuated by all the xxxxuation institutions to be Doctor of Medicine equivalent.

And the most important point is the USMLE and all the medical boards recognize the equivalency.And these graduates can take the board exams and take the residency training and eventually practice in this country and all around the world, including china. And they are entitled to be called Doctor or MD.

By the rule of this country, it is normal and fair to call the foreign country trained physician MD. Even the INS recognize this. When you apply for H1B for your residency, I don't think anybody would be silly enough to tell INS that I don't have MD degree, I have a Bachelor of medicine and by law I am not entiled to be trained in the residency program.

So, if you have medical degree from foreign country and want to be a physician or are physician in the States, by the common practice, you don't have any choice except to call yourself MD.

If you are really not comfortable to call yourself MD,then take 3 year residency training and apply for license in New York. Once you get your full license, you can apply for Doctor of Medicine from the Department of
Education, State of New York. It would be a degree from the State University of New York and it is real. Please search the education department website by google for further inxxxxation.( I remember you have to have at least green card to apply for license in New York.)

As of Postdoc, my understanding is postdoc is a cheap labor. Nobody takes that very seriously. Though US MD can be a postdoc, I keep hearing that the MD postdoc is stupid. So, at this point, the US MD and chinese MD or MD from anywhere doesn't make big difference. And the qualification for postdoc is very loosely controlled.It is upto the institution or the boss of the lab. So, if your boss want you to be called MD, then just call yourself MD. If not, then be a technician. Actually, techinican has an easier and more steady job.

Please remember one thing. The most important is your internal merit.Not your degree or title.

As of what you call yourself in your private life, it is obviously up to yourself. You can post a lable calling yourself the President of the United States of the America as long as it is on your private property.

And if you don't like to see the foreing trained physician be called MD or qualified to take the USMLE exams, you can express your feeling here in a reasonable way and wise way and be polite and respectful.Or send letter or email to your senator or congressman. Or contact US government branch. But in public, when you see a licensed chinese physician, it would be reasonabe to call him/her MD and doctor, if you are mentally lucent.In the lab, if the guy has the postdoc title, it would be reasonable to call him MD. If he is a technician, obviously, he is a technician.

At your home, you can call us anything you like.

3. It is very silly to argue about this.

The person who initiated this must be mentally retarded.

It is very long time for me to ponder why Chinese who have highest scores go to Beijing University Biochemistry Major, Not go to Beijing Medical College. They are really intereted in research? Probably most of them not. And even when they are in the States, they still don't realize that smart Americans generally don't do research. And medical shool and law school, no matter in what univeristy, are the hottest.Even in China, our clinical professors earn more and have better life than most graduates from Tsinghua or BJU.

So, I wonder: are they really smart or just idiot savant? Probably the latter.

Anyway, there are lots of bizarre things in China. Always.

To those Chinese Bachelor of Medicine:

if you are practicing, then be a good doctor and MD. Laugh quietly behind your computer. No need to join this board.If you want to practice, prepare for USMLE, and prepare well.you know, if you get US license, you can almost practice anywhere in the world. Is that not wonderful?

To those not bachelor of medicine:

if you want to be doctor of Medicine or doctor of pharmacy or doctor of dentistry or doctor of physical therapy, go to Medical school or dentistry school( it might be less competitive) or other professional schools. Then be a doctor. I know one person who got Ph.D then went to a medical school, now is radiology resident.Another person, who has chinese bachelor of medicine but actually a dentistry major,got his Ph.D. in the States, then went to the Dentistry school in the same university, now has two dentistry clinics.

If you feel you chose a wrong career and don't want to adjust your career, probably you need to adjust your mind. Be peaceful in your mind. Respect and encourage your friends, your fellow chinese.If you still feel bad, probably it is a good choice to consult a psychiatrist. If you don't speak good English, I know there are many chinese psychiatrist. I am sure they can help you. Of course, you have the right to refuse therapy from a chinese physician and he has the obligation to respect your choice, it is really up to how well you are doing in the states to secure a famous white physician specialist and not be treated with discrimination.

Merry Christmas to all Chinese in this board from US or Canada.