網友討論:人類的自由意志(續) |
送交者: 喜來登 2006年07月14日09:31:46 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 射線對大腦的打擊是不可預測的: 下面這段的意思是放射是不可預知的,你可以忽略: A gram of uranium-238, a commonly occurring radioactive substance, contains some 2.5 x 1021 atoms. By all tests known to science these atoms are identical and indistinguishable. Yet about 12600 times a second one of the atoms in that gram will decay, giving off an alpha particle. This decay does not depend on external stimulus and no extant theory of physics predicts when any given atom will decay, with realistically obtainable knowledge. The uranium found on earth is thought to have been synthesized during a supernova explosion that occurred roughly 5 billion years ago. For determinism to hold, every uranium atom must contain some internal "clock" that specifies the exact time it will decay. And somehow the laws of physics must specify exactly how those clocks were set as each uranium atom was formed during the supernova collapse. 你讀讀這個: Exposure to alpha radiation can cause cancer. For this to happen, at some point a specific alpha particle must alter some chemical reaction in a cell in a way that results in a mutation. Since molecules are in constant thermal motion, the exact timing of the radioactive decay that produced the fatal alpha particle matters. If probabilistically determined events do have an impact on the macro events, such as whether a person who could have been historically important dies in youth of a cancer caused by a random mutation, then the course of history is not determined from the dawn of time. 你無法預知大腦什麼時候突變,所以也不能說是預定的。 當然,並沒有從根上瓦解.但你的理論是不成立了。 宗上所述,你即使有個巨強的computer,也無法預測歷史。 1。精神活動並不全部建立在物質結構的基礎上;這個觀點不可證偽(?),本文不談。 2。存在一些不可預測的偶然因素:量子效應在小概率下可以在很大尺度上表現出來(貓同時是死的和活的);原子衰變只有統計意義上的規律,無法精確預測各個原子的表現。 3。計算量將超過計算機本身的物理承載極限。不知道並行計算機有沒有可能解決這個問題。 4。實際操作上的困難:最初的極小誤差會很快被放大到不可接受。 5。其他意見。 針對第二點,我認為是很強有力的反駁。無論是怎樣的小概率,當樣本很大,時間夠長時,它還是會發生。“人類無自由意志”的強理論我打算放棄。 但是弱理論如何?假定這個計算機不但在不斷預測未來,也在不斷計算未來被改變的概率,同時不斷收集數據,一方面檢測是否未來已經被改變,另一方面對未來的計算是建立在最新數據的基礎上。這樣,我們雖然不能從大爆炸開始預測到未來無窮,但是有99。99999%置信度從今天開始預測未來一年。 說幾句題外話:宇宙是有限的;或者說,在某個邊界之外的事情我們是無法知道的;我打死不信量子力學:在雙縫試驗中,當光量子被一個一個放出來的時候,出現的不是疊加的衍射圖樣,而是干涉圖樣!給我一個斷裂吧! 現在還不知道怎麼反駁.讓我思考幾天 無為:你們的問題在於 沒有搞清楚 什麼是人的“自由意志” 是一種在自我意識控制之下的有序的 信息處理過程, 當人的意識過程 被外界改變本身不是自由意志的體現。 虎皮尖椒:看風的推理,人的意志幾乎100%是預定,可推測的 這是一種哲學概念.他雖然從100%上退了一步,但仍然是在小區域正確. 當然,顯然是前提錯了.問題是如何反駁...要有邏輯的反駁... 無為:沒啥好說得了,人沒有自由,嘿嘿,全部的信息都是外來的 如果宇宙是被造的,那就是有限的,所有的過程都是預定的。 xinmin:We have an illusion of free will, it is so true to us that we cannot imagine a not free world. But in the final analysis, everything is superintended by the Almighty God. 無為:贊同~~~~ An emsemble of atoms and other microcosmic particles makes some collective move based on internal and external interactions, that is all to freewill in a physical sense. Of course, one can argue that there is a metaphysical layer of freewill choice.
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2004: | 也來湊趣:)得着主自己! | |
2004: | 內在的試煉 | |
2003: | 致彩虹上的基督徒(1) | |
2003: | 「做工懈怠的,與浪費人為弟兄。」 | |
2002: | 神說................................ | |
2002: | Time and time again, I ask you: 你可 | |