有幾個慕道友問的“叛經離道”問題，請教大家該如何回答？
1）耶穌既然有救贖人類這麼偉大的使命，他為什麼上十字架之前如此掙扎？
對比有很多革命烈士或者宗教人士對待死亡大義凜然或者淡然處之的態度，
耶穌的表現是否有些“遜”了（不如，比較差的意思）？
2）出賣耶穌的猶大真是一個倒霉蛋，為了幫助耶穌上十字架，犧牲了自己。
如果沒有猶大，十字架的救恩豈不是完成不了？或者沒有猶大，還要有另外
一個出賣耶穌的倒霉蛋？
請大家出主意該如何回答這些問題。
我們嘗試性的回答如下，但感覺還是沒有特別有說服力。
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1）其實對待死亡大義凜然和淡然處之的態度，在基督教里也不少見。比如
彼得和保羅上十字架的時候。保羅很早就對死亡看的很淡然了。那麼，作為
基督教的神，耶穌對待死亡的態度，顯然不會比保羅和彼得“遜”。
耶穌在十字架前的掙扎，除了肉體上的痛苦，我想可能靈裡面的掙扎更加
痛苦。耶穌要負擔全人類所有的罪，飲下苦杯，還要經歷和父神短暫分離
的痛苦。聖經真實記錄了耶穌的痛苦。所以沒有遜不遜的問題。
2）猶大不是倒霉蛋，他自己的道德品質就有問題，比如偷錢，才會被撒旦
誘惑。如果沒有猶大出賣，我想神的救恩還是會以某種方式完成。當然，歷史
沒有假設。
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對比--大義凜然或者淡然處之的態度：
送交者: 雅1 2010月11月15日17:17:10 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話
回 答:小包包:幾個慕道友問的“叛經離道”問題，請教大家該如何回答？ 由 小包包 於2010-11-13 16:15:19
1）耶穌既然有救贖人類這麼偉大的使命，他為什麼上十字架之前如此掙扎？對比有很多革命烈士或者宗教人士對待死亡大義凜然或者淡然處之的態度，耶穌的表現是否有些“遜”了（不如，比較差的意思）？
對比的好，耶穌從出生開始，就比大義凜然的要“遜”了：
主是全知的，神他明明知道他讓約瑟一家逃了，希律要殺一切2歲內的孩子，他居然“遜”地逃亡，任憑其他嬰兒因他而死亡！對比，抗戰電影裡的光輝形象挺身而出，把自己交給日本人，解救全村老百姓，這簡直太遜了呀。
附錄：
馬 太 福 音 2:13-18
他們去後、有主的使者向約瑟夢中顯現、說、起來、帶着小孩子同他母親、逃往埃及、住在那裡、等我吩咐你．因為希律必尋找小孩子要除滅他。約瑟就起來、夜間帶着小孩子和他母親往埃及去．住在那裡、直到希律死了．這是要應驗主借先知所說的話、說、『我從埃及召出我的兒子來。』 希律見自己被博士愚弄、就大大發怒、差人將伯利恆城裡、並四境所有的男孩、照着他向博士仔細查問的時候、凡兩歲以里的、都殺盡了。這就應了先知耶利米的話、說、『在拉瑪聽見號咷大哭的聲音、是拉結哭他兒女、不肯受安慰、因為他們都不在了。』
主是全能地，其實都不用他挺身而出，他派個使者就可以讓要殺他和其他嬰兒的希律倒地身亡，他也確實讓另外一個希律倒地身亡了：
Act 12:23 希律不歸榮耀給神、所以主的使者立刻罰他．他被蟲所咬、氣就絕了
為什麼大能全知的他如此之遜？？
這是聖靈告訴我們，耶穌絕對不是負載崇高使命的人之英雄，他絕對不是為了無辜的人而犧牲自己的人；
這是聖靈告訴我們，耶穌在表達他不以自己與神同等為強奪的，反倒虛己、自己限制自己做為神的大能，取了奴僕的形像、成為人的樣式．既有人的樣子、就能體諒那愚蒙的、和失迷的人、因為他自己也是被軟弱所困． 他並非不能體恤我們的軟弱．他也曾凡事受過試探、與我們一樣．只是他沒有犯罪。
原來，他不是來做我們的英雄地，他來是做體恤我們的軟弱但當我們罪過的替罪羊地。他不是高大的英雄，他是與我們一樣被軟弱所困的人，只是他把他的軟弱交給神，神就派天使加添他力量，因此他能夠順從神，他不是為了無辜的人而犧牲他自己的英雄，相反，他是為了罪有應得的罪人們而替代了懲罰。
2）出賣耶穌的猶大真是一個倒霉蛋，為了幫助耶穌上十字架，犧牲了自己。如果沒有猶大，十字架的救恩豈不是完成不了？或者沒有猶大，還要有另外一個出賣耶穌的倒霉蛋？
這個問題，如果學完了下面列的經文，就知道猶大不是倒霉蛋，而是蒙受了比我們一般人多的多的恩典卻依然拒絕到底的而使得其結局無可推逶。
Judas: Grace for every sinner
Read Luke 22:1-6,47,48
Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present. . . .
47While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
Gifts of grace to Judas:
Luke 6:12-16 Called to be a disciple, one of the 12, designated an apostle
John 6:70 After prayer, Jesus still chose Judas even though he knew Judas would betray him. He still chose him to be one of the Twelve.
Acts 1:16-17 Shared in this ministry. Jesus gave him part in the ministry of the Word. That is a gift of pure grace for the man who would betray him.
John 13:29 Judas was the group treasurer, a position of responsibility among the apostles.
Mark 5:41,42; 6:40-44.; 6:48 He saw amazing miracles firsthand, including the feeding of the 5,000, Jesus walking on water, and Jesus raising the dead
Matthew 10:1 (How often do we remember this one?) He let Judas perform miracles in his name. The man who would later betray him was shown such grace that God allowed him miracles of healing to give attestation to the ministry of the Son of God.
Calls Judas to repentance
God didn’t stop at giving gifts of grace. Jesus also called Judas to turn from his path again and again. Identify the calls to repentance Jesus gave to Judas.
John 6:64-71 Jesus told Judas plainly that he knew that Judas did not believe. The Savior spoke the law with all its harshness and identified the future betrayer as a devil.
John 12:4-8 Jesus addressed the god that Judas worshipped: money. He called him to repent of his false piety that was meant only to cover his theft. He pointed him to the short time that Jesus would be there in his earthly ministry and alluded to the ultimate result of Judas’ idol worship: Christ’s burial.
John 13:10,11; 13:21-27 Jesus spoke to Judas’ unbelieving heart with the truth of God’s law: I know you, Judas. I know what you intend. I point you out that you might see your sin and turn from it. Of course, Judas didn’t. He turned instead to sin and Satan, and the devil took him as his own.
John 18:4-6 Judas was driven to the ground along with the crowd who had come to arrest Jesus. They thought they had come with all the power, but they could not help but fall before the Lord. Judas should have known again that he was betraying the Son of God.
Luke 22:48 When the man shown so much grace came to betray his Lord, he came under a guise of friendship. Jesus calls out Judas on the galling nature of his act: you are betraying the Son of Man, the Messiah himself, and doing it with a supposed kiss of friendship? Hard is the heart that could ignore Jesus’ calls to repentance!
Love spurned
He had sold his Lord for silver, but when he saw that Jesus was condemned, Judas “was seized with remorse” and said, “I have sinned . . . for I have betrayed innocent blood” (Matthew 27:3,4).
Look at Matthew 27:1.
What did Judas recognize? The innocence of Christ and the fact that he had sinned in his actions.
What events led to Judas’ remorse? Was he present at the trial? Did it begin when he fell to his knees in the garden? Did he think, somehow, that they weren’t going to condemn Jesus to death? We don’t know. What we do know is that when Jesus was condemned, Judas condemned himself.
Explain the difference between remorse and repentance? Remorse is distress over the guilt from past wrongs. Repentance consists of two parts: contrition (sorrow over sins, terror of sin’s effect) and faith in God’s forgiveness. Remorse comes from the law. Repentance is born of the gospel.
How did the words of the religious leaders completely contradict the plan of God? They said that the guilt was Judas’ responsibility. In fact, Christ came to save sinners and take the responsibility of sin and guilt away from them.
How did Judas’ remorse lead to his suicide? His guilt and terror over sin lacked the faith in Christ that comes with repentance. He was hopeless and helpless, believing that God could not love a sinner like him.
The message of Christ is one of law and gospel. What is the danger if one or the other is excluded? The despairing sinner who knows only law cannot but think that all is lost. He needs to hear the gospel. The sinner who thinks lightly of sin needs to see the mirror of the law. God wants us to rightly divide the Word of Truth so that the comfortable might be afflicted and the afflicted comforted.
Jesus gave many gifts of grace and calls to repentance to Judas. How is Judas a warning to us? How a comfort? We, too, have been shown great grace in Word and sacrament. Judas is a warning that we should never spurn God’s grace or belittle the danger of sin.
Yet in Christ’s actions and attitude toward Judas, we see the truth of John 3:16: that God truly loved the world and everyone in it.
The grace of God was never far from Judas. In Judas we see God’s grace for every sinner. Even our Lord’s betrayer was shown the grace of God. To the very end, Jesus called on Judas to question his ways. In his betrayal and subsequent suicide, Judas typifies the worst of sin. But even our Lord’s betrayer saw the selfless, seeking, all consuming love of Christ. What a comfort to know that God loved the world. That means he loves me!
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“叛經離道”的回答
送交者: xinmin 2010月11月15日08:43:13 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話
回 答:小包包:幾個慕道友問的“叛經離道”問題，請教大家該如何回答？ 由 小包包 於2010-11-13 16:15:19
1）耶穌既然有救贖人類這麼偉大的使命，他為什麼上十字架之前如此掙扎？對比有很多革命烈士或者宗教人士對待死亡大義凜然或者淡然處之的態度，耶穌的表現是否有些“遜”了（不如，比較差的意思）？
試答：的確，我們不得不承認，耶穌在客西馬尼園的軟弱表現（感謝門徒的如實記載！）似乎比不上許多革命烈士們在臨死關頭所表現出的某種英勇無畏或者視死如歸（至少書本上是如此教育咱們的，他們果真有過多少或者什麼軟弱，咱們估計就不得而知了）。我想，耶穌更加認同咱們普通人臨危有懼的表現。答案的關鍵也從這裡開始。
耶穌向普通的你我（姑且也包括景仰英雄人物的發問者）表明，他作為人類代罪的羔羊，是一個有血有肉的人，最真實地表達出人類的共同心情：對死亡的懼怕。但耶穌深知：他來到這個罪惡的世界，正是要完成流血的救恩，拯救被罪與死捆綁而貪生怕死的人。他不得不死，他其實別無選擇。所以，他雖然表現出常人（以及革別人命後來被別人革命的英雄人物）可以理解的軟弱（雖然革命烈士跟耶穌一樣，最後都不得不拒絕了軟弱，英勇就義），依然對天父禱告三次說，但不要照我的意思，乃照你的意思。這給咱們這些生來就怕死的普通人指明了一個方向：我雖軟弱，求父的意願依然在我身上成就。
咱們現在還苟且活着的人，等到死亡臨頭，估計就更加深刻明白耶穌的舉動了。而且，死亡來臨前，抓腮的機會恐怕都缺乏，找救命稻草或者救命恩主或者被動等死，都是很不得已啊。你說呢。
2）出賣耶穌的猶大真是一個倒霉蛋，為了幫助耶穌上十字架，犧牲了自己。如果沒有猶大，十字架的救恩豈不是完成不了？或者沒有猶大，還要有另外一個出賣耶穌的倒霉蛋？
試答：猶大真正的倒霉還不是用親嘴的暗號來幫助抓耶穌的人在黑暗中抓對人，因為即使沒有他，要下手辦耶穌其實也很容易。要置耶穌於死地的人大有人在，犯不上猶大或另外的倒霉鬼幫忙。當然，上帝一眼看穿永恆，知道猶大是滅亡之子，他必然扮演並不光彩的角色。猶大真正的倒霉是，他耳聞目睹耶穌彰顯天國的權能，他或者想利用大能的耶穌揭杆而起鬧革命，推翻羅馬人的統治，或者想撈點人肉饅頭（三十塊銀錢）。無論如何，他失算了！這是他的倒霉。聽過耶穌福音而依然拒絕耶穌的現代人，即使不全是罪有應得，不也是同樣倒霉嗎？
補充一點：
耶穌比誰都更深刻明白，罪人落在永生神手裡是何等可怕！
他以代罪之身，比英雄人物就更加明白為全人類受苦受死的重擔之沉重！
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活不到冬天的蟲子，怎麼會知道冬天的冰冷呢?
送交者: 搖頭 2010月11月15日06:36:19 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話
回 答:小包包:幾個慕道友問的“叛經離道”問題，請教大家該如何回答？ 由 小包包 於2010-11-13 16:15:19
人類歷史上慷慨赴死的有很多，只要對死本身有個能安慰自己的良心的開解就可以了。
就連魯迅筆下的阿Q被拉出去砍頭的時候還在琢磨怎麼個死法兒才有面子，卻對死的本身麻木不仁。
或找到了死得其所的意義，或找到了“重於泰山”死的價值，或找到了“二十年後又是一條好漢”死的安慰，畢竟人人都有一死，只是早死幾年晚死幾年的問題，慷慨起來還是能做到的。
拿只有幾十年生命的人的死去比較自有永有永生耶穌基督的死那是幼稚可笑的，就相當於分子是幾十比無限這個分母一樣，結果是大家都清楚的零，沒任何的意義。
死這個苦杯的滋味只有耶穌基督自己知道，在他的自有永有的生命當中為了我們的罪而出現了死這麼個斷點，嘗到了死的苦味，那種痛苦哪裡是我們只有這可憐的幾十年生命的人能理解和比較的，我們不要在干夏蟲語冰的傻事了，活不到冬天的蟲子，怎麼會知道冬天的冰冷呢?
羅馬書：
| 5:7 | [hgb] | 為 義 人 死 ， 是 少 有 的 ， 為 仁 人 死 ， 或 者 有 敢 作 的 。 |
| | [kjv] | For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. |
| | [bbe] | Now it is hard for anyone to give his life even for an upright man, though it might be that for a good man someone would give his life. |
| 5:8 | [hgb] | 惟 有 基 督 在 我 們 還 作 罪 人 的 時 候 為 我 們 死 ， 神 的 愛 就 在 此 向 我 們 顯 明 了 。 |
| | [kjv] | But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. |
| | [bbe] | But God has made clear his love to us, in that, when we were still sinners, Christ gave his life for us. |
兩個死囚就要被執行死刑的時候
法官赦免了那個叫蒙恩的，執行了那個叫猶大的。
那個叫蒙恩的劫後餘生本應該感激涕零才對，而他卻說：這對猶大不公平，為什麼叫他死了讓我活了？為了讓我活，猶大犧牲了他自己，真是個倒霉蛋。
呵呵，這人的思維是不是很奇怪？
羅馬書：
| 3:7 | [hgb] | 若 神 的 真 實 ， 因 我 的 虛 謊 ， 越 發 顯 出 他 的 榮 耀 ， 為 什 麼 我 還 受 審 判 ， 好 像 罪 人 呢 ？ |
| | [kjv] | For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? |
| | [bbe] | But if, because I am untrue, God being seen to be true gets more glory, why am I to be judged as a sinner? |
| 3:8 | [hgb] | 為 什 麼 不 說 ， 我 們 可 以 作 惡 以 成 善 呢 ？ 這 是 毀 謗 我 們 的 人 ， 說 我 們 有 這 話 。 這 等 人 定 罪 ， 是 該 當 的 。 |
| | [kjv] | And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. |
| | [bbe] | Let us not do evil so that good may come (a statement which we are falsely said by some to have made), because such behaviour will have its right punishment. |
| 9:16 | [hgb] | 據 此 看 來 ， 這 不 在 乎 那 定 意 的 ， 也 不 在 乎 那 奔 跑 的 ， 只 在 乎 發 憐 憫 的 神 。 |
| | [kjv] | So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. |
| | [bbe] | So then, it is not by the desire or by the attempt of man, but by the mercy of God. |
| 9:17 | [hgb] | 因 為 經 上 有 話 向 法 老 說 ， 我 將 你 興 起 來 ， 特 要 在 你 身 上 彰 顯 我 的 權 能 ， 並 要 使 我 的 名 傳 遍 天 下 。 |
| | [kjv] | For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. |
| | [bbe] | For the holy Writings say to Pharaoh, For this same purpose did I put you on high, so that I might make my power seen in you, and that there might be knowledge of my name through all the earth. |
| 9:18 | [hgb] | 如 此 看 來 ， 神 要 憐 憫 誰 ， 就 憐 憫 誰 ， 要 叫 誰 剛 硬 ， 就 叫 誰 剛 硬 。 |
| | [kjv] | Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. |
| | [bbe] | So then, at his pleasure he has mercy on a man, and at his pleasure he makes the heart hard. |
| 9:19 | [hgb] | 這 樣 ， 你 必 對 我 說 ， 他 為 什 麼 還 指 責 人 呢 ？ 有 誰 抗 拒 他 的 旨 意 呢 ？ |
| | [kjv] | Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? |
| | [bbe] | But you will say to me, Why does he still make us responsible? who is able to go against his purpose? |
| 9:20 | [hgb] | 你 這 個 人 哪 ， 你 是 誰 ， 竟 敢 向 神 強 嘴 呢 ？ 受 造 之 物 豈 能 對 造 他 的 說 ， 你 為 什 麼 這 樣 造 我 呢 ？ |
| | [kjv] | Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? |
| | [bbe] | But, O man, who are you, to make answer against God? May the thing which is made say to him who made it, Why did you make me so? |
| 9:21 | [hgb] | 窯 匠 難 道 沒 有 權 柄 ， 從 一 團 泥 里 拿 一 塊 作 成 貴 重 的 器 皿 ， 又 拿 一 塊 作 成 卑 賤 的 器 皿 嗎 ？ |
| | [kjv] | Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? |
| | [bbe] | Or has not the potter the right to make out of one part of his earth a vessel for honour, and out of another a vessel for shame? |
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我會這麼回答
送交者: 四季樹 2010月11月13日19:25:55 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話
回 答:小包包:幾個慕道友問的“叛經離道”問題，請教大家該如何回答？ 由 小包包 於2010-11-13 16:15:19
1）所謂 “ 無知者無畏” --- 這可以形容先烈們及其它宗教人士（長着石頭心的人們） 為理想獻身的英勇勁頭（如果他們真實徹底地了解他們的理想只能是無法實現的夢想、幻想或whatever以及他們所要付出的代價的話）。
-- 抱歉，估計這麼說，有人得怒了。
對於為主殉道的人，有耶穌的榜樣和聖徒們的腳蹤，更有聖靈內駐加添的力量。
基督耶穌上帝的兒子，洞察參透萬事，深刻了解祂所要承受的，十架七言中，祂最痛苦的時刻，呼喊的是 ”“我的神，我的神，為什麼離棄我？”-- 這是祂至深的痛苦。
2）出賣神子、釘死耶穌的是這個世界的罪惡。不用太糾結某個人。就象這個世界永遠不缺乏背叛，悖逆一樣。
