| 网友讨论：一， 关于同性恋思考 |
| 送交者: co15 2012年07月04日05:50:47 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 |
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天生性取向真能后天改变吗? 请看今天刚看到的...
送交者: gaolian 2012年06月27日14:46:52 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 今天看到的文章. (当然对那些自愿选择去当GAY的, 神自会审判. 不在我们讨论之中.) http://news.yahoo.com/ 至少我没说过“因为如果是天生的，那么就是合理的。” 我说那是病，我想他们自己也会认为那是病, 不是神原本的设计。病有轻有重, 这谁都懂。我也说过他们得改。可是他们因病而受到不同的待遇， 异性恋不是也同样要是追求“圣洁”？ 可同是追求“圣洁”，当我们异性恋有性犯罪的念头或行为时（ 你所提到的等伴侣的情况, 配偶患病的情况, 等等一切我们异性恋所面临的挑战不都一样不少地同样发生在他们的 “爱人如己”不是只爱基督家里的, 是去爱所有的人如己！ ______________________________ 关于 Exodus International 的事儿 送交者: mean 2012月06月28日16:21:00 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 回 答:天生性取向真能后天改变吗? 请看今天刚看到的... 由 gaolian 于2012-06-27 14:46:52 大约半年，或者是大半年以前，我也贴过，当然不是同一篇文章， 那篇文章提醒我们说， Christian life is a life of self-denial。这不是单说同性恋，更是说所有的人—— （你前面问到经文里面什么地方说神不喜悦同性恋性行为？ 这是一个自从亚当就已经堕落的时代， 这不是对同性恋基督徒说的，也是对所有人说的。 I think that, one of the the worst things we can do as Christians reading the Bible, is to put words in God's mouth what God does not say. If we truly believe that the Bible is the revelation of GOD, then we should think twice before altering the meaning of the verses, lest we be called false prophets. It's well known that the laws of the OT doesn't necessarily apply in NT, but the principles by which Christians judge what laws apply and what laws does not apply, were more than adequately addressed in CHRIST's teachings, and in early apostles' application (esp. in Pauline epistles). This framework (that GOD's laws are still valid to this day, as guidance and commands to Christians, even if the penalty of not able to completely fulfill that law has been paid by CHRIST in full on the cross), is important if you want to understand why Paul said what he said, in condemning homosexual acts along with a number of other acts. In general, it's safe to say (and I am not extrapolating much here at all) that if a practice is condemned in the OT, condemned in the NT, condemned without giving pretext or context, then there is no excuse for Christians to endorse this practice. One that comes to mind is murder, another is adultery, yet another is stealing. Homosexual acts, no matter how you argue, counts in this category, as clearly indicated in the Scriptures. To read the meaning behind a certain command, then, needs to be done under this very same framework. It does not in any way render that particular command meaningless. as an example, GOD asked Abraham to sacrifice his son as a foreshadowing of His plan to sacrifice His only begotten Son for the sake of mankind. But this in no way alleviates Abraham his responsibility in sacrificing Isaac, however primitive and barbaric that may sound to you. Whether Isaac ought or ought not to be sacrificed in the end was not in Abraham's power to determine, but in GOD's. I can imagine your incredulousness in accepting this. since somehow or other, you have equated homosexual orientation with disease, disease with helplessness, helplessness with hopelessness, and hopelessness with freedom from responsibility. you lack of understanding of biology and genetics has lifted homosexuality entirely up from the rest of human pathology and into a category of its own. but that incredulousness still does not void the command from GOD, because no matter what the reason behind the condemnation of homosexual acts, that reason does not invalidate the condemnation of homosexual acts itself. You can reason all you want, the truth is, neither OT nor NT has ever implied, in any way, shape or form, that homosexual acts are acceptable to GOD, or that pretext or context would somehow free perpetrators of such acts free of guilt, much as the involuntarily demon-possessed are not alleviated their "uncleanness" unless and until demons were cast out by the Holy command of CHRIST or one of his apostles. I am not saying homosexual acts are in any way more deplorable than premartial sex, adultery, divorce, pornography, and a whole host of human sexual sins whether in acts, in speech or in thoughts, some of which I am guilty (Mat 5:27-30); as such homosexuals, whether practicing or not, should not be subjected to discrimination. I am merely saying that homosexual orientation, no matter how diseased, does not alleviate a person of his responsibility if he has given up on the grace of GOD to pursue the bondage of flesh. There are a whole host of diseased states in personality, sexuality, addiction, self-awareness, emotional management etc., but short of overt psychosis, I don't think anyone can claim that they are "free" of the responsibility of their acts. ______________________________ 争论不在点上.同性恋是违背圣经的灵性之罪,天生的后生 送交者: candle 2012月06月29日04:29:41 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 回 答:天生性取向真能后天改变吗? 请看今天刚看到的... 由 gaolian 于2012-06-27 14:46:52 都改变不了那是罪这个定义. 怎么对待这个罪是个可选择的事,天生的可选择治疗, 每人都在罪中挣扎不等于罪就是合理,可以理直气壮非存不可了. ______________________________ 还是那句话，让有耳的听，大家该干嘛干嘛， 送交者: 无为 2012月06月27日20:10:42 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 回 答:天生性取向真能后天改变吗? 请看今天刚看到的... 由 gaolian 于2012-06-27 14:46:52 这都是神的命定，各人的命运和用处早就定好了， 大家管好自己，干好该做的事情，不要听一些人妖言惑众， 我们的话说到就好了。 ______________________________ 给gaolian的回帖，算是回贴。 送交者: 四季树 2012年06月29日22:10:45 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 异性恋不是也同样要是追求“圣洁”？ 送交者: gaolian 2012月06月28日19:16:38 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 回 答:阿门，袁少轩分享“对于基督徒而言， 可同是追求“圣洁”，当我们异性恋有性犯罪的念头或行为时（ 你所提到的等伴侣的情况, 配偶患病的情况, 等等一切我们异性恋所面临的挑战不都一样不少地同样发生在他们的 “爱人如己”不是只爱基督家里的, 是去爱所有的人如己！ ============================= 给gaolian的回帖，算是回贴。 送交者: 四季树 2012年06月29日22:10:45 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话 什么是爱？圣经里的定义最全面。 不信主以前，我喜欢感觉之爱，信主以后， 圣经里说：“因为袮的慈爱比生命更好“。 我知道是强奸是会被抓进监狱。并且如果你买房子， 什么样的人群自杀比例高？我知道相对老年人、 你觉得同性恋自杀比率高吗？有数据分析吗？ 我在中国的网页找到点数据 http://news.163.com/special/ 如感兴趣这样的议题，你可以去search美国的网站， 在教会的N多年里，我参与探讨同性恋议题还不如在彩虹多。 每个人的十字架不一样，神所爱的，祂必破碎我们的老我， 多少圣徒为信仰而死、希伯来书中论信心中， 他们在永恒里所得到的荣耀也是极重无比的。 希伯来书11章 36 又有人忍受戏弄，鞭打，捆锁，监禁，各等的磨炼。 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 被石头打死，被锯锯死，受试探，被刀杀。 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38 在旷野，山岭，山洞，地穴，飘流无定。本是世界不配有的人。 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 我没有接触过明确”出柜的“同性恋。我接触过出轨的、暴力的、 我个人的那点渺小同情必须顺服祂的律法之下。 只有神完全的公义和公平，也只能在祂的国度里才能实现。 如果你有爱心和感动服事这个人群，愿神祝福和带领你。 ______________________________ |
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