回  答:如果不是亚当，换了别人也一样犯罪，是这意思？ 由 张马克 于2009-09-20 13:51:26

亚当站在一个宇宙历史中绝无仅有的一个机会，就是代表所有的人接受上帝的考验。所以，改革宗神学称亚当为“旧约”的“头”——旧约的代表。
我们不能假设说，如果当时换了张马可你，面对撒但的诱惑，你会完成亚当所没有完成的任务。我们只能说，根据圣经的记载，这是历史上的一个悲剧。
而其结果就是：因一人的过犯，所有人都被定罪，这个坏消息。
然而，这个坏消息的另一面，就是“因一人的顺从，众人也成为义”的这个好消息。
所有在亚当里的人都被定罪。
但是所有在基督里的人，都能享受基督顺服父神的恩益，就是一个重造的新生命。
感谢神！

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lostonce:

More proper questions could be Why do we have urges and desires, emotions that lead us into temptation?

Eve had desires and emotions that got her in trouble. Did God make her bad then? Did HE decide to make her vulnerable?
 
Why would God hold us accountable for the sins of another? Essentially what Adam and Eve did was take away Eden, a state of perfection where we had all we would need and were not burdened w/material desires. Materialistic comfort is (SIN), in my opinion, the one true faith of modern America now.

Some marvelous examples
 
are that of Lazarus and the rich man.

Luke
Chapter 16
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12 "There was a rich man 13 who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day.
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And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
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who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores.
22
When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,
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and from the netherworld, 14 where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
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And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.'
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Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.
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Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.'
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He said, 'Then I beg you, father, send him to my father's house,
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for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.'
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But Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.'
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15 He said, 'Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
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Then Abraham said, 'If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.'"

The biggest lesson in this parable is that the rich man who had the means to ease Lazarus’ sufferings and help him did nothing but ignore him and didn’t lift a finger to help him.
 
The bible are full of rich, yet righteous people

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

In fact, pursuing the spiritual over the material is a central element of virtually everything Christ ever preached.

Without a doubt, nowdays, the biggest ignored scandal in all of Christianity is the bilking of people using God for profit. The notion that God wants to bless the faithful with earthly riches is dangerous. No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

The difference between the concepts of original sin and reincarnation is latter has chance for human to escape the miserable life from one generation to the next.  However, if you really think about the “original sin”, it makes no difference to reincarnation in which you can think of yourself as a reincarnated sewer rat – one that drowns, over and over, through several millions lifetimes – IF YOU ARE NOT SAVED.

"死是因一人而来"
 
送交者: lostonce 2009月09月20日01:45:25 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
 
回  答:这叫亚当之约。 由 诚之 于2009-09-19 21:56:15 
 
I'm not sure at all what happens after death, nobody's come back (as far as I reliably know) to tell us. On one hand, I figure that it would be a waste of human consciousness for all of this to go to nothing, yet, we are the only species on the planet who believe our consciousness, and its survival after death are important. Perhaps that's overestimating its worth somewhat. I guess we'll all just have to see, if there's anything to see.

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Mean:

原罪这个词 听起来是让人不舒服，却是事实。原罪显于我们的罪性，这罪性是还没有罪行以前就有的。

Why would HE not
 
送交者: mean 2009月09月20日20:44:14 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
 
回  答:Why would God hold us 由 lostonce 于2009-09-20 08:21:34 
 
when the one sin committed by Adam has been inherited by us as a profoundly sinful nature that goes beyond actual sinful acts? If you read Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), you'd see that it's not actual acts that Jesus was warning us against, but the very sinful nature we all possess. Moreover, if sin cannot be brought onto all of us through one man, then sin cannot be paid for all of us through one man.

As it is written: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come."

Moreover
 
送交者: mean 2009月09月20日20:52:48 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
 
回  答:Why would HE not 由 mean 于2009-09-20 20:44:14 
 
Material desires, or, for that matter, materialistic comfort, are by no means the definition of Sin. The bible are full of rich, yet righteous people, such as Abraham, Job, David, etc. Replacement of God by materialistic ambitions, on the other hand, is a sin (one of many). The most fundamental of sins, according to the Bible, is man's desire to be independent of (read "rebel from", "do away with") GOD, which, in my opinion, is simply a reflection of man's desire to indulge (in this particular case, to indulge in themselves, first and foremost).

I don't think
 
送交者: mean 2009月09月21日08:27:01 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话
 
回  答:The bible are full of rich, 由 lostonce 于2009-09-21 06:12:36 
 
there is any conflict between what you are saying and what I said. "The most fundamental of sins, according to the Bible, is man's desire to be independent of (read "rebel from", "do away with") GOD." This is in accordance with what Jesus said, "you cannot serve God and Mammon", because "no one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other." In other words, when you misplace your priorities (read "rebel from", "do away with" GOD), that's when sins arise, whether you are pursuing material wealth, good reputation, power, sexual pleasure...(the list goes on.)

As you yourself had said, "the biggest lesson in this (rich man and Lazarus) parable is that the rich man who had the means to ease Lazarus’ sufferings and help him did nothing but ignore him and didn’t lift a finger to help him". Indeed, it's not wealth that condemned him, but his lack of mercy. So, you are right, "pursuing the spiritual over the material" is a central element of Christ's teaching, NOT "stop pursuing the material".

Finally, no matter what age we are in, there will always be people who use faith for their own gain, whether it's material wealth or otherwise. It's especially dangerous in this age, with the advent of such things as prosperity gospel. That's why Christians should be all the more alert and root their faith firmly in the Bible and sound theology, as opposed to pursuing the "feel-good" gospel, or the supernatural experience, over and above Jesus Christ and the Bible.