八里庄:

低收入人士(一般也是教育水平低)的人是不会象教育程度高的人那样精于计算，但他们也会比较：克里贸易保护主义的经济政策就真能为低收入人士带来更大利益？

美国强大的国力靠的就是自由经济而不是闭关自守,从这点上看我支持小布。还有就是：他们不认为过去四年糟糕，他们不愿意冒险换人连过去的利益都不保。

其实精英唾弃小布跟红脖子选择小布都不是看中他的经济政策，而是偏重价值观，眼界开阔的精英不知道贸易保护主义的弊端？但他们忽略不及了。他们忙着维护更重要的东西---自由主义的价值观。这点红脖子不过跟精英们做了同样的取舍，怎么就能说他们蠢而精英们聪明呢？大家不过都是在站在自己的立场选择而已。

美国人利益至上不错，可毕竟是个清教徒建立的国家，他们的宗教情结很难被中国人理解。这次大选给了个范例：美国人很注重精神的。

还有最重要的一点：反恐。美国人对恐怖主义还是相当害怕的，说话简短，态度果断的小布给了他们安全感。这点克里显得很无力。美国人是听不懂什么合作反恐的，美国人只相信自己。因为红脖子的左邻右舍都是美国人，他们不懂跟外国人怎么合作。要让他们变得跟精英一样视野开阔，好，给他们同等的教育和经验。怎么做俺不知道。

你们老说美国人傻，起码是选小布的人傻，说THEY DESERVE HIM。那你说他们会因此损失什么呢？小布要变成希特勒？别逗了，价值观的风向标一贯跟时装一样，今天东明天西，保守力量今天强大了，但在美国这样的国家，我还真看不出就能回到中世纪。

美国人选小布还真不傻。他们和小布有共同的道德观共同的利益，这点他们跟克里坐不到一条板凳上去。红脖子们一天没跟精英们分享共同的道德观和价值观，一天就不可能做出跟精英一样的选择。选跟自己一样的人，红脖子们跟精英在这点上是一致的。 在做选择题上，智商不是决定性因素。

传统的价值观是不能轻易抛弃的， 稳定的社会实际上依赖这种传统，而更为宽容的道德观和价值观则能保护少数人的利益，增加社会的公平度同时减少因为少数人不见容于大众带来的震荡。一个成熟的社会体系是要求得两者之间的平衡的。这是中庸之道在社会道德领域的体现，这样的社会才能保证持续发展，把社会动荡的可能减到最低。
我持自由主义价值观，但我不认为保守主义是愚蠢。他们不过是天平的两端。平衡是最重要的。

听雨:

同事间常聊天，所以对美国社会背后我们这些外来移民不太清楚的东西略知一二。

一女孩全家都是典型的红脖子，周围的邻居实际上还都是满有钱的，可是他们对生活的局限认识，让人咂舌。 女孩是家里唯一的叛逆，常和父亲辩论。她不明白为什么布什可以随意武力侵略他国，他父亲说，打得好，我才不管他们死多少，只要我们安全。

宗教比他们的生命还重要，从宗教里延伸出来的道德观左右着他们的生活方式, 另一同事未婚妻全家也是红脖子的家庭，从来不关心国内大事，新闻只关心自己小镇的就好，更不要说国际的了。在外面看起来挺客气的，可是关起门来大骂老黑和我们这些移民，那种咬牙切齿，就差戴个白头套了。

红脖子不都是你们想象的农民。他们很多保持着欧洲家庭的习俗，女士有严格的坐相站相说话方式，规矩之严，是在兰州的人民难以想象的。他们不是没有接受过普及教育，可是因为他们对传统价值观的严格遵守，导致他们拒绝和时代同发展而落后于其他地方。 这种意识形态上的固步自封,以宗教和宗族的优越感表现出来,发展得轻点是封建遗老,重点的话就和小希很相近了(如果他们有机会的话)

虽然我不赞成说他们蠢，但我知道他们绝对没有能力象巴黎上面说的那种分析能力。对于他们来说，对堕胎和同性恋的反感，大于一切. 他们从宗教里延伸出来的道德观主宰着他们的思维,就这么简单。他们或许提倡持有枪支的自由，可是绝对反对贸易的自由。如果有一点点思想的,就会知道布什自己的道德观和红脖子们推从的道德是背道而驰的,切尼更有个同性恋的女儿. 共同利益就更谈不上了,布什的政策在经济上严重的损害了这些人的利益. 不过他们是不会深究的,或许是不能,或许是不愿, 我不想随意猜测.

我只是没有想到,这样的人有这么多, 5千万,小豆说的"我们再也没有'他不代表我们'借口了",我很理解她的绝望.

豆粘儿:

The World is Grey

Sorry about ranting in English. But I feel like I need to get this off my chest and I don’t have time right now. I keep on typing things out and then hitting the delete key since the words don't even begin to capture a fraction of what I'm feeling right now. Yesterday I went through the day having to fight back the urge to weep, which kept popping up with great frequency and at the most inopportune moments (e.g. the Prof, “what do you think of the impact of nanotechnology on computer architecture”; me “hmm…oh…whaa?” ). The day ended at last and I got home and had myself a really good, bawling, snot-running cry in the shower. I've been trying to remember the last time I cried that hard. I think it was 9/11.

So it feels like the world is ending. And in many ways it is, even though I keep trying to focus on the fact that it's just another four years. We endured four years of Ashcroft and Cheney and Rumsfeld, we can surely do it again, I tell myself. That only works if you don't think about the decades-long generational stamp this Administration is in process of applying to our judiciary. That only works if you don't think about Iraq and the coming civil war that should break out sometime next spring. Now basically we have a republican majority in the senate and the house. Daschle lost, Kerry lost, and now at least two and potentially four of the seats in the house are up for reappointment by a president whose supreme justice of choice is Clarence frickin’ conservative Thomas, who believes that there is no such thing as right to privacy in the constitution. And for those of you who are gay, pack up your belongings and leave the country, for you are plaque and this country would rather have bloodshed in other countries and be out of work than give you rights.

How much damage can you do to a country in the space of four years? I really think we're about to find out. To think I've waited for a change to die for so long, and this is the result.

The thing I can't stop thinking about is that not only did we lose the election yesterday, we also lost our excuse. That oh-so-important 'please excuse - we didn't elect this idiot' one. That was my only consolation during the worst insanities of Bush's first term, the knowledge that the majority of my fellow citizens had rejected Bush and his agenda in 2000, the reality that we were trapped on a bus driven by a crazy man and couldn't get off. But now, we own him. He now truly represents the majority of people who voted. We chose and our choice was this.

Some small part of me thinks we are getting the government we deserve. That we have picked our partner and he's made up the bed and we deserve to lie in it. But then I think of the 55,384,497 people (a number which will go up, by the way, they're still counting votes) who said "No" to Bush and "Yes" to Kerry and I think that they, that we, at least, don't deserve this. The world certainly doesn't deserve it. All I can say to my friends living in foreign lands is that we tried. So, so hard. And I'm so very, very sorry that it just wasn't enough. I would ask for your forgiveness and patience, but I think you're probably just about out of those. So I'll simply ask you to remember that more than 55 million of us didn't want this. That millions of us opened our wallets and gave of our time and energy to try to make sure this didn't happen. That millions of us stood for hours in line at the polls, in the rain in some places, and until the early hours of this morning in others, to try to make sure this didn't happen. In the end, it just wasn't enough. But we tried. We tried.

Ah, the world is grey and cold. And it will not lift its head to look at me.

唯一:

十几年前我到这块大陆来，因为我和很多当年的年轻人一样，向往民主自由。我觉得我来对了。

十几年后，我仍然觉得我没有走错路，这块大陆仍然是地球上最民主自由的地方。

民主在我的理解就是，想说什么说什么，想干什么不必走后门，投票选总统小民有张三李四王麻子几个候选人可选，不会在大选那天出现神秘枪击案。。。

至今，我在这块地方都得到了这些权力。

你可以说他们的民主还不够彻底，但是，这世界上没有能满足所有人的制度－除了无政府主义。不过我不想要无政府主义，至少我希望有人管收垃圾的事情。

也许我要求不高，但是升斗小民有这些就够了。

至于小布是不是靠家里的钱当上总统，是不是２０００年在佛州选票上做了手脚，我不太在意。我看到他们走法律途径重新点票，失败者能客气地认输，胜利者不会诋毁败方，我很满意了，换一个国家，也许会演变成暗杀或者内战那样的结局。

民主就是一切能放在桌面上谈。你怀疑小布２０００年在佛州选票上做手脚了么？那你得有证据，拿不出来，仅靠怀疑不算数。

如果你认为这里还不够民主，请讲讲你理想的民主应该是什么样。

微粒:

我看咱们茶馆的同学很少有不关心美国大选的，但是大概很多的同学也就是聊聊，真正深入思考的并如豆粘儿一样带入感情的并不多。

昨天看到橡皮一气呵成的民主狗头论，心下里的确是缠抖了一哈：(( 我很想知道同学们来到美国的初衷是什么？！就我个人来说，我在国内的生活条件很不错啦，我很想看看并想了解我从小就比较景仰的自由，民主制度到底是什么样的是我的最大目的。

我是在2000年的初秋来到的美国，所以基本上一开始就被搞糊涂啦。。。小克创造的美好的美国我连个尾巴都没瞧清楚就发生了上次大选的选票事件：((

大家再看看这次，民主党可以说是彻底失败啦，总统不说啦，参众两院都没啦。。。我不会说这样的选举不民主，看到现在，我知道这就是民主，民主就是一人一票，无论你是谁，你只有一票；无论你多么的看不得那些乡下人他们也有自己的一票，和你的一票一样的被计算！

作为民主党的总统后选人，到大选后期都不敢公开说：LIBERAL啦，难道这不是问题嘛？！昨晚NBC采访OH的投票人，大家坐在小餐馆里，各个胖嘟嘟看上去很憨厚，人家说啦：我们要捍卫我们的道德观，那些人都不是基督徒，我们不信任他们！

我们这些在MA，CA呆久了的华人大概真的以为全美国和这些地方一样，是那么的提倡彻底的自由，其实呢，结果呢？！

我们很多人，我自己我在猜想也包括橡皮都对美国的民主寄予了很高的期望，是我们自己把民主给神化啦，当然其中被美国的宣传机器影响也占了很大部分，带着过于美好的脱离实际的想法看待民主，自然是会受伤的。。。

今天波士顿那份免费的METRA上终于看到了特里萨温柔感人的画面，您说您早干吗去啦？！美国人民喜欢的还是那种看上去很善良并甜甜微笑的劳拉，而不是您这种独立的女强人！

我理解橡皮同学的失落并希望橡皮同学能够看到我这贴，并且快乐起来：))
民主就是这样的，现实，真实，有时候美好，有时候也不怎么样，认识到这一点，我也很恍惚。。。

冬青:

布什的胜利就是狂热的基督徒的胜利。多数美国人把道德排在第一位，即使观点不同。而他们的道德不过是建立在圣经上的道德。有人即使同意克里的观点，仍认为布什更正直。俺最不能理解的就是这一点。当总统的不应该看他到底做了什么吗？以反恐名义，基督徒同穆斯林宣战。

从昨天高院改变联邦法院判决，允许ohio选举当天challange voter就预示了共和党的胜利。4年前高院把总统职位判给了布什。今年共和党又利用法律阻挡新选民注册。不少法律纠纷被拖延。布什上台再任命几位一伙的大法官，麦卡锡时代降临。

Idea

To: 数据数据

Your understanding of how Hitler came to power might be wrong

In a country which has more than two major players in politics, whoever can win about 42-45% of popular votes in an legislative election will usually get an easy majority government, which means that this party is going to control more than half of the seats in a parliament.

Hitler’s 37% win certainly gave him a minority government. Although his party didn’t win a simple majority in the parliament, which means 50% +1 seats or more, it still had more seats than any other parties. Therefore, Hitler was entitled to ???? a minority government and as the leader of his party, he automatically became the prime minister.

The tricky part of a minority government is, it relies on the support of the opposition parties to pass any bills that they put forward. If the oppositions unite and vote against the government in a confident vote, then the government is defeated, the parliament is disbanded and another election has to be called. So, usually a minority government can’t push its own agenda too aggressively because they simply can’t guarantee their bills can be pasted. This might be the reason why Hitler was considered lucky. Against the common wisdom that a minority government should be moderate and compromising to sustain its life, Hitler actually went extreme and grabbed even more power as the result. This was certainly an irregularity that happened at a special time in the special circumstances.

Just some interesting in????ation, the average longevity of Italian government after the WWII is probably less than two years. The Itatians always have minority governments and most of the governments didn't last long.

编后话:收集了一些较长的贴,以供大家集中阅读,也许会有遗漏,望谅.