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不結什麼果子的葡萄枝子會被剪去?
送交者: repentant 2017年10月28日11:28:20 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話

約翰福音15
1我是真葡萄樹,我父是栽培的人。 
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2凡屬我不結果子的枝子,他就剪去。凡結果子的,他就修理乾淨,使枝子結果子更多。
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
3現在你們因我講給你們的道,已經乾淨了。 
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
4你們要常在我裡面,我也常在你們裡面。枝子若不常在葡萄樹上,自己就不能結果子。你們若不常在我裡面,也是這樣。 
Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5我是葡萄樹,你們是枝子。常在我裡面的,我也常在他裡面,這人就多結果子。因為離了我,你們就不能作什麼。 
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6人若不常在我裡面,就像枝子丟在外面枯乾,人拾起來,扔在火里燒了。 
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
7你們若常在我裡面,我的話也常在你們裡面,凡你們所願意的,祈求就給你們成就。 
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
8你們多結果子,我父就因此得榮耀,你們也就是我的門徒了。 
This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
9我愛你們,正如父愛我一樣。你們要常在我的愛里。 
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
10你們若遵守我的命令,就常在我的愛里。正如我遵守了我父的命令,常在他的愛里。 
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

約翰論述以基督為葡萄樹的葡萄枝子如果不結果子,就會被剪去。1.如果持守在基督里(remain in me), 就會有所成就。2.如果不持守在基督里,就會被丟棄!

這次談話的對象是耶穌自己的門徒,顯然耶穌是針對暫信、小信或淺信的門徒的告誡。什麼是結果子?重要的是,不結什麼果子才被砍去呢?不結聖靈的果子就被砍去嗎?不是的。很容易理解,只有不再信耶穌的人,才完全足夠有必然被剪去而丟棄!因信稱義,不信怎可稱義?這個邏輯是一致的。正如信心可以成長一樣,小信的信心也可以喪失,即失去信心而不再信!

Fruitlessness is unfaithfulness. As Jesus hinted there are believers who have little faith. They will either grow their faith bigger to be fully faithful, or lose their faith and become unfaithful.  Unfaithful followers are not believers any more and therefore all away from grace. 

It is NOT all or none in faith as Jesus pointed out "little faith" in between. Little faith is still faith and not unfaithful at all. In the beginning, some deciples of Jesus have little faith. Bear in mind that faith can grow like mustard seed, or disappear!

Is little faith a result of rebirth by God?
Yes. Everyone's faith is gained by the work of God, no matter how little it is!

Losing faith is not denying God's work, but admitting man's SIN.
It is clear that there is God's reprobation if a man denies or loses God's grace even if he is elected in the beginning. This is God's punishment.

This clearly suggests that election and reprobation could occur to one person who is in faith or unbelieving in a time frame. 

However, be aware that the faith is the results of salvation, election included, conversely reprobation is the results of man's unbelieving!☝️

I am the true vine (5).bmp

路加福音 - 第 13 章 

6於是用比喻說,一個人有一棵無花果樹,栽在葡萄園裡。他來到樹前找果子,卻找不着。 
Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any.
7就對管園的說,看哪,我這三年,來到這無花果樹前找果子,竟找不着,把它砍了吧。何必白占地土呢? 
So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?'
8管園的說,主阿,今年且留着,等我周圍掘開土,加上糞。 
"'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it.
9以後若結果子便吧。不然再把它砍了。 
If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.'"

同樣,路加論述不結果子的無花果樹要被砍去,但注意可以暫時留着,以便觀察。為什麼可以暫時留着不結果自的樹呢?因為信心是可以成長的!就像一顆芥菜種子。所以信心不是“全或無”的關係,鬱金香簡單劃一的邏輯是錯誤的。耶穌專門講了這個問題。

另一方面,正如信心可以成長一樣,小信的信心也可以喪失,就失去信心而不再信。

1. 馬太福音 - 第 13 章 第 31 節
他又設個比喻對他們說,天國好像一粒芥菜種,有人拿去種在田裡。
2. 馬太福音 - 第 17 章 第 20 節
耶穌說,是因你們的信心小。我實在告訴你們,你們若有信心像一粒芥菜種,就是對這座山說,你從這邊挪到那邊,它也必挪去。並且你們沒有一件不能作的事了。
3. 馬可福音 - 第 4 章 第 31 節
好像一粒芥菜種,種在地里的時候,雖比地上的百種都小,
4. 路加福音 - 第 13 章 第 19 節
好像一粒芥菜種,有人拿去種在園子裡。長大成樹,天上的飛鳥,宿在它的枝上。
5. 路加福音 - 第 17 章 第 6 節
主說,你們若有信心像一粒芥菜種,就是對這棵桑樹說,你要拔起根來栽在海里,他也必聽從你們

希伯來書6
4論到那些已經蒙了光照,嘗過天恩的滋味,又於聖靈有分, 
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5並嘗過神善道的滋味,覺悟來世權能的人, 
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6若是離棄道理,就不能叫他們從新懊悔了。因為他們把神的兒子重釘十字架,明明地羞辱他。 
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7就如一塊田地,吃過屢次下的雨水,生長菜蔬合乎耕種的人用,就從神得福。 
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8若長荊棘和蒺藜,必被廢棄,近於咒詛,結局就是焚燒。 
But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

這是保羅論述同樣的問題,對於初信或小信的信徒,就如田地,吃過雨水(真道、救恩),A.結真道的信實(FAITHFULNESS)的果子(莊稼CROP),就得神的祝福. B.如果不結真道信實(FAITHLESSNESS)的果子(荊棘和蒺藜),就被廢棄!

路加福音8

11這比喻乃是這樣。種子就是神的道。
12那些在路旁的,就是人聽了道,隨後魔鬼來,從他們心裡把道奪去,恐怕他們信了得救。
13那些在磐石上的,就是人聽道,歡喜領受,但心中沒有根,不過暫時相信,及至遇見試煉就退後了。
14那落在荊棘里的,就是人聽了道,走開以後,被今生的思慮錢財宴樂擠住了,便結不出成熟的子粒來。
15那落在好土裡的,就是人聽了道,持守在誠實善良的心裡,並且忍耐着結實。

A.魔鬼來,從他們心裡把道奪去:不信型,聽了道也不信。

B.心中沒有根,不過暫時相信遇見試煉就不再相信了

C.結不出成熟的子粒:信,但被世俗羈絆最終不再相信(沒有信心的果子)

Map10-28-17.bmp


沒有信怎麼可以在基督里?
送交者: repentant 2017月10月28日12:59:49 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話

回  答: 那有你那麼蠢的呢?看你爪子寫的 由 古道 於 2017-10-28 12:12:29

耶穌明確說a branch in me ! 哈哈(∩_∩)

顯然是信了(in  me),但持守不住(doesn't remain in me) 而不再信了!


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