設萬維讀者為首頁 廣告服務 聯繫我們 關於萬維
簡體 繁體 手機版
分類廣告
版主:奇異恩典
萬維讀者網 > 彩虹之約 > 帖子
John Macarthur:關於全然敗壞T的關鍵爭論
送交者: 謹守 2023年12月28日19:07:39 於 [彩虹之約] 發送悄悄話

KEY CHAPTERS IN THE CONFLICT OVER TOTAL DEPRAVITY

The quintessential episode in the whole debate, of course, was the Pelagian controversy. This conflict arose early in the fifth century when Pelagius and Celestius objected to Augustine’s teaching that sinners are totally unable to obey God unless He intervenes by grace to free them from sin.

全然敗壞的衝突的關鍵

然,整個辯論中最典型的事件是伯拉這場衝突生在五世初,當時伯拉和塞斯蒂斯反對奧古斯丁的教導,即罪人完全無法順服神,除非神通恩典介入,們從罪中解放出

Augustine was merely affirming the plain truth of Romans 8:7–8: “The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” But according to Pelagianism, anyone who simply chooses to obey God can do so. In contradiction to Romans 5:12–19, Pelagius steadfastly denied that human nature was in any way defiled or disabled by our first parents’ sin. He insisted Adam alone fell when he ate the forbidden fruit, and neither guilt nor corruption was passed from Adam to his progeny because of his disobedience. Instead, the Pelagians said, every person possesses perfect freedom of the will just as Adam himself did at the beginning. So when we sin, it’s purely by choice, not because our nature is depraved. They furthermore said sinners have the ability to change their hearts and free themselves from sin by the exercise of sheer willpower.

古斯丁只是肯定了羅馬書87-8節中直白的:“原肉體的,就是仇。因不服神的律法,也是不能服。而且肉體的人,不能得神的喜。”但根據伯拉,任何選擇順服神的人都能夠這樣做。與羅馬書 5:12-19 相矛盾的是,伯拉糾堅決人性因我始祖的罪而受到任何形式的玷疾。他認為只有亞當吃了禁果才落,亞當的罪疚和腐有因他的悖逆而傳給他的後代。相反,伯拉,每人都有完美的意志自由,就像亞當本人一始所做的那。因此,犯罪粹是出於選擇,而不是因的本性壞了。他們還表示,罪人有能力通過純粹的意志力改自己的心,使自己擺脫

 

In effect, the Pelagians denied the need for divine grace and reduced salvation to a shallow notion of self-reformation. Of course, they utterly failed to make any compelling rational or biblical case for such a system, and their view was formally denounced as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431.

實際上,伯拉派否認對神恩典的需要,並將贖簡自我改革的膚淺概念。然,他完全為這樣的體系提供任何令人信服的理性或聖經依據,他點在 431 年被以弗所會議正式譴責為異端。

Yet no sooner was the original wave of Pelagian teaching turned aside than a new movement arose to explain away the seriousness of human depravity—with a more subtle doctrinal sleight of hand. While formally acknowledging that Adam’s sin in some measure infected and disabled all his offspring, this view insisted that sinners nevertheless have just enough freedom of will left to make the first motion of faith toward God without the aid of divine grace. Today, we commonly refer to this view as Semi-Pelagianism, because it is something of a middle position between the views of Augustine and Pelagius. The name is a more recent coinage, dating back to the early Reformation, but the idea first arose not long after the Pelagian controversy began.

然而,最初的伯拉糾教義浪潮一被置,一新的運動起了,用更微妙的教義花招來曲解類墮落的重性。然正式承認亞當的罪在某程度上感染了並致殘了他所有的後代,但這種觀認為,罪人仍然有足的意志自由可以在有神恩典的助下神做出最初的信仰行。今天,我通常將這種觀稱為半伯拉,因為它介於古斯丁和伯拉點之這個名字是一個較新的造,可以追溯到宗改革初期,但這個想法在伯拉糾爭議開始後不久就首次出

 

The gist of Semi-Pelagianism is that human depravity, while real, is not really total. Sinners are still good enough to be able to lay hold of saving grace on their own. Saving grace, therefore, is a response to human initiative rather than the efficient cause of our salvation.

半伯拉的要點是,人然是真實,但不是完全的。罪人仍然足,能靠自己得拯救的恩典。因此,拯救恩典是性的回,而不是我得救的有效原因。

 

The central principle underlying Semi-Pelagianism has been denounced by several church councils, starting with the Second Council of Orange in 529. But numerous influential teachers throughout church history have proposed variations and modifications, trying to avoid being labeled Pelagian or Semi-Pelagian but still seeking a way to prop up the notion that human free will is in some way the hinge on which the salvation of sinners turns.

529年的第二次奧蘭治公會議開始,半伯拉的核心原被幾個教會理事會譴責。但整個教會歷史上多有影力的教師提出了化和修改,試圖避免被伯拉或半伯拉標籤但仍然找一方法支持這樣種觀念,即人自由意志在某程度上是罪人得救的關鍵

 

Arminianism takes precisely that approach. This view, of course, arose in reaction to Calvinism; it wasn’t a significant factor until some fifty years after John Calvin’s death. But in order to understand the various ways people have tried to avoid the implications of total depravity, it might be helpful to summarize Arminianism before we examine Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity in closer detail.

阿米念主正是採用了這種方法然,這種觀點是針對加爾文主生的。直到翰·加爾文去世大五十年後,才成重要因素。但是,了理解人們試圖避免全然敗壞的影的各方式,在我詳細究加爾文全然敗壞教義之前,總結一下阿米念主可能有所助。

 

The Arminian position is based on a slight modification of the Semi-Pelagian principle. (In fact, many who call themselves Arminians today are actually Pelagians or Semi-Pelagians.) No true Arminian would deliberately deny that Adam’s sin left his progeny depraved and in bondage to sin. But according to the Arminian scheme, a measure of “prevenient grace” has been universally granted to sinners, nullifying or mitigating the effects of the fall. It’s not enough grace for salvation, but just enough to restore a small measure of volitional liberty to the sinner. Therefore, Arminians believe it is now possible for sinners who hear the gospel to make their own free-will choice about whether to receive it.

阿米念派的立是基於半伯拉微修改。 (事,今天多自稱為阿米念主者的人實際上是伯拉派或半伯拉派。)有一個真正的阿民念主故意否認亞當的罪致他的後代陷入罪的束。但根據阿米念派的方案,罪人普遍得了一定程度的“先行恩典”,消除或減輕落的影這還不足以拯救罪人,但足以恢罪人一點點的意志自由。因此,阿米念主者相信,聽到福音的罪人可以自由意志選擇是否接受福音

 

In other words, universal prevenient grace renders sin’s bondage moot and restores free will to the sinner. So the Arminian scheme (just like Semi-Pelagianism) gives lip service to the doctrines of original sin and humanity’s universal fallenness, but in practice it portrays the actual condition of fallen sinners as something less than total depravity.[1]

話說,普遍先行的恩典使罪的束縛變得毫無意了罪人的自由意志。因此,阿民念主的方案(就像半伯拉上承原罪和人普遍落的教義,但實際落罪人的實際狀況描述為並非完全敗壞

 



[1] John Macarthur, “Chapter 11: Man’s Radical Corruption,” in John Calvin: A Heart for Devotion, Doctrine, and Doxology, ed. Burk Parsons (Lake Mary, FL: Reformation Trust Publishing, 2008), 130–132.


0%(0)
0%(0)
  先行的恩典就是衛斯理的“傑作” - 謹守 12/29/23 (12407)
    J.I.Packer 這樣說 - xiahong 12/29/23 (12406)
      抄錯了地方。回家思過。一併道歉。  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11470)
        這個認錯道歉還不錯。我小心謹慎一下還是對的。 - weak 12/29/23 (10631)
        為弟兄點讚。弟兄的坦誠,他們幾個提鞋都不配阿 - nngzh 12/29/23 (11435)
        😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11491)
      Arminianism在《傳福音與神的主權》英文版根本未出現  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11472)
      你這段話是從巴克那本書拷貝過來的,給個出處吧?  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11686)
        你準備去重新翻譯?  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11645)
          如果有必要,當然會重新翻譯。但我首先想看出處,我轉貼必給出處  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11613)
        J.I.Packer所著的 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11709)
          原文語態時態如何?上下文如何?我現在對中文翻譯警惕了。 - weak 12/29/23 (11660)
            你顛倒黑白的本事,讓我學習了  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11574)
              請舉例。  /無內容 - weak 12/29/23 (11589)
                你上面那一貼  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11528)
                  鏈接在此,沒有冤枉RCA吧,不是黑白顛倒吧。 - weak 12/29/23 (10668)
            希臘文和英文的冠詞是一個big deal,華人翻譯很容易在這 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11598)
          沒貼上文章名字 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11650)
            我有這本書,你給出幾章幾頁?  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11611)
              改革宗網站的,也能胡翻譯?  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11588)
                打着改革宗旗號的網站,要特別小心。RCA還荷蘭改革宗呢, - weak 12/29/23 (11574)
                  這個網站行嗎? - xiahong 12/29/23 (11536)
                    你把你拷貝的那一頁的鏈接發上來就好,英文版的那本書 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11514)
                      您老人家這麼快就通讀了一遍?十戒里有撒謊嗎?  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11495)
                        撒謊的顯示是你——毒蛇的種類  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11497)
                          對不起,我抄錯了地方。 道歉,接受您的指教  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11483)
                            😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11457)
                        下面很清楚顯示我有電子版 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11470)
                        我有英文電子版,一搜索就知道  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11468)
      現在沒人嫌棄巴克嘴大了?😁  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12248)
        你同意巴刻的結論嗎?  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (12221)
          同意他前面的,唯獨最後一句不同意  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11870)
            沒有同感一靈?  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (11726)
              你還是先把鏈接發上來吧,撒謊的人啊  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11452)
       - nngzh 12/29/23 (12323)
        😄😄😄😄😄定錯地方了  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11437)
    不帶你這樣的,他們同感一靈,主張一樣,筆誤而已  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (12431)
        我們是那種真正不崇拜大V的,我們一貫慎思明辨👍🏻  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11449)
        你們帶頭專挑大V少數字句,還不准別人仔細分辨?  /無內容 - weak 12/29/23 (11685)
      歡迎你在主帖下暢談衛斯理的先行的恩典  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12371)
        慚愧,我興趣不大。  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (12360)
          沒興趣?怕是談不出來幾句話吧  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11788)
          沒興趣?怕是談不出來幾句話吧  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11805)
      是的,我們同感一靈,在P話題上我跟weak一樣怒吼麥克阿瑟  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12358)
        一共五點喲,只一點可以嗎?我問過的  /無內容 - xiahong 12/29/23 (12330)
          是啊,五點一點都不放過,從第一點開始  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11844)
    有本事你就聚焦T,至於P話題,我是不會放過麥克阿瑟的  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12395)
        我的主帖清楚表明麥克阿瑟譴責先行的恩典☝🏻  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (11429)
          俺也認為“先行的恩典”於聖經的根據不足 - nngzh 12/29/23 (11414)
            哪有你這種大傻呢?先行的恩典就是否認神恩獨作啊 - 謹守 12/29/23 (10819)
    是你在蓄意玩弄花招轉移視線,是你蓄意將T話題轉換成P話題  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12389)
    污老N必將像賊一樣躲避這一帖,也勢必繼續賊溜溜地躲避  /無內容 - 謹守 12/29/23 (12689)
    一個不承認自己是罪人的人需要耶穌為他釘十字架和復活嗎?  /無內容 - 謹守 12/28/23 (14441)
    果真,日光之下無新事  /無內容 - 謹守 12/28/23 (14467)
  gives lip service、 but in prac - 謹守 12/28/23 (14509)
    這百姓用嘴唇尊敬我,心卻遠離我(太15:8)污老N就是這種人  /無內容 - 謹守 12/28/23 (14503)
  我恭候污老N槍斃John Macarthur  /無內容 - 謹守 12/28/23 (14636)
標 題 (必選項):
內 容 (選填項):
實用資訊
回國機票$360起 | 商務艙省$200 | 全球最佳航空公司出爐:海航獲五星
海外華人福利!在線看陳建斌《三叉戟》熱血歸回 豪情築夢 高清免費看 無地區限制
一周點擊熱帖 更多>>
一周回復熱帖
歷史上的今天:回復熱帖
2022: “逃城”的起源和功用
2022: 悔改與信心的邏輯關係(轉帖--僅供參考)
2021: 復活,是信徒現時就開始的真實經歷(含音
2021: 查經分享:出埃及記第十八章
2020: 淺談神化論(二):古傳統教父神化思想
2020: 淺談神化論(三):西方神學家神化觀念
2019: 死亡與永生
2019: 【立此存照】吳倩最近的代言。啥貨色大
2018: 人之靈肉二元神生神造論
2018: 北美牧者向中國教會問安(轉貼僅供參考