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不结什么果子的葡萄枝子会被剪去?
送交者: repentant 2017年10月28日11:28:20 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话

约翰福音15
1我是真葡萄树,我父是栽培的人。 
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2凡属我不结果子的枝子,他就剪去。凡结果子的,他就修理干净,使枝子结果子更多。
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
3现在你们因我讲给你们的道,已经干净了。 
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
4你们要常在我里面,我也常在你们里面。枝子若不常在葡萄树上,自己就不能结果子。你们若不常在我里面,也是这样。 
Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5我是葡萄树,你们是枝子。常在我里面的,我也常在他里面,这人就多结果子。因为离了我,你们就不能作什么。 
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6人若不常在我里面,就像枝子丢在外面枯干,人拾起来,扔在火里烧了。 
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
7你们若常在我里面,我的话也常在你们里面,凡你们所愿意的,祈求就给你们成就。 
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
8你们多结果子,我父就因此得荣耀,你们也就是我的门徒了。 
This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
9我爱你们,正如父爱我一样。你们要常在我的爱里。 
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
10你们若遵守我的命令,就常在我的爱里。正如我遵守了我父的命令,常在他的爱里。 
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

约翰论述以基督为葡萄树的葡萄枝子如果不结果子,就会被剪去。1.如果持守在基督里(remain in me), 就会有所成就。2.如果不持守在基督里,就会被丢弃!

这次谈话的对象是耶稣自己的门徒,显然耶稣是针对暂信、小信或浅信的门徒的告诫。什么是结果子?重要的是,不结什么果子才被砍去呢?不结圣灵的果子就被砍去吗?不是的。很容易理解,只有不再信耶稣的人,才完全足够有必然被剪去而丢弃!因信称义,不信怎可称义?这个逻辑是一致的。正如信心可以成长一样,小信的信心也可以丧失,即失去信心而不再信!

Fruitlessness is unfaithfulness. As Jesus hinted there are believers who have little faith. They will either grow their faith bigger to be fully faithful, or lose their faith and become unfaithful.  Unfaithful followers are not believers any more and therefore all away from grace. 

It is NOT all or none in faith as Jesus pointed out "little faith" in between. Little faith is still faith and not unfaithful at all. In the beginning, some deciples of Jesus have little faith. Bear in mind that faith can grow like mustard seed, or disappear!

Is little faith a result of rebirth by God?
Yes. Everyone's faith is gained by the work of God, no matter how little it is!

Losing faith is not denying God's work, but admitting man's SIN.
It is clear that there is God's reprobation if a man denies or loses God's grace even if he is elected in the beginning. This is God's punishment.

This clearly suggests that election and reprobation could occur to one person who is in faith or unbelieving in a time frame. 

However, be aware that the faith is the results of salvation, election included, conversely reprobation is the results of man's unbelieving!☝️

I am the true vine (5).bmp

路加福音 - 第 13 章 

6于是用比喻说,一个人有一棵无花果树,栽在葡萄园里。他来到树前找果子,却找不着。 
Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any.
7就对管园的说,看哪,我这三年,来到这无花果树前找果子,竟找不着,把它砍了吧。何必白占地土呢? 
So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?'
8管园的说,主阿,今年且留着,等我周围掘开土,加上粪。 
"'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it.
9以后若结果子便吧。不然再把它砍了。 
If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.'"

同样,路加论述不结果子的无花果树要被砍去,但注意可以暂时留着,以便观察。为什么可以暂时留着不结果自的树呢?因为信心是可以成长的!就像一颗芥菜种子。所以信心不是“全或无”的关系,郁金香简单划一的逻辑是错误的。耶稣专门讲了这个问题。

另一方面,正如信心可以成长一样,小信的信心也可以丧失,就失去信心而不再信。

1. 马太福音 - 第 13 章 第 31 节
他又设个比喻对他们说,天国好像一粒芥菜种,有人拿去种在田里。
2. 马太福音 - 第 17 章 第 20 节
耶稣说,是因你们的信心小。我实在告诉你们,你们若有信心像一粒芥菜种,就是对这座山说,你从这边挪到那边,它也必挪去。并且你们没有一件不能作的事了。
3. 马可福音 - 第 4 章 第 31 节
好像一粒芥菜种,种在地里的时候,虽比地上的百种都小,
4. 路加福音 - 第 13 章 第 19 节
好像一粒芥菜种,有人拿去种在园子里。长大成树,天上的飞鸟,宿在它的枝上。
5. 路加福音 - 第 17 章 第 6 节
主说,你们若有信心像一粒芥菜种,就是对这棵桑树说,你要拔起根来栽在海里,他也必听从你们

希伯来书6
4论到那些已经蒙了光照,尝过天恩的滋味,又于圣灵有分, 
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5并尝过神善道的滋味,觉悟来世权能的人, 
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6若是离弃道理,就不能叫他们从新懊悔了。因为他们把神的儿子重钉十字架,明明地羞辱他。 
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7就如一块田地,吃过屡次下的雨水,生长菜蔬合乎耕种的人用,就从神得福。 
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8若长荆棘和蒺藜,必被废弃,近于咒诅,结局就是焚烧。 
But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

这是保罗论述同样的问题,对于初信或小信的信徒,就如田地,吃过雨水(真道、救恩),A.结真道的信实(FAITHFULNESS)的果子(庄稼CROP),就得神的祝福. B.如果不结真道信实(FAITHLESSNESS)的果子(荆棘和蒺藜),就被废弃!

路加福音8

11这比喻乃是这样。种子就是神的道。
12那些在路旁的,就是人听了道,随后魔鬼来,从他们心里把道夺去,恐怕他们信了得救。
13那些在磐石上的,就是人听道,欢喜领受,但心中没有根,不过暂时相信,及至遇见试炼就退后了。
14那落在荆棘里的,就是人听了道,走开以后,被今生的思虑钱财宴乐挤住了,便结不出成熟的子粒来。
15那落在好土里的,就是人听了道,持守在诚实善良的心里,并且忍耐着结实。

A.魔鬼来,从他们心里把道夺去:不信型,听了道也不信。

B.心中没有根,不过暂时相信遇见试炼就不再相信了

C.结不出成熟的子粒:信,但被世俗羁绊最终不再相信(没有信心的果子)

Map10-28-17.bmp


没有信怎么可以在基督里?
送交者: repentant 2017月10月28日12:59:49 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话

回  答: 那有你那么蠢的呢?看你爪子写的 由 古道 于 2017-10-28 12:12:29

耶稣明确说a branch in me ! 哈哈(∩_∩)

显然是信了(in  me),但持守不住(doesn't remain in me) 而不再信了!


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