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1314：诚之兄和各位老师请进

诚之兄前面有贴提到下面的经文。

我查了一下，觉得新译本更准确的翻译了作者的原意，至少从多处英文译本来看。
而且和合本翻译与“因信称义”有冲突。老师认为如何？

这是主日学老师的作业。 谢谢。

马太福音
11:12 从施洗约翰的时候到如今，天国是努力进入的，努力的人就得着了。
从施洗的约翰的时候直到现在，天国不断遭受猛烈的攻击，强暴的人企图
把它夺去。
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven
suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
And from the time John the Baptist began preaching and baptizing until now, the
Kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people attack it.
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has
suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force.
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freshwind：这个有趣的问题俺能提供一个完整但不一定正确的答案

主要是和合本和一些英文版本看似矛盾的说法.

(中文和合本圣经)马太福音11:12 从施洗约翰的时候到如今，天国是努力进入的，努力的人就得着了。

从Lexicon上查到两个英文版本是

The King James Version:

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence (5731) (5743) , and the violent take it by force (5719) .

The New American Standard Bible:

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.

希腊原文是一样的

apo de twn hmerwn Iwannou tou baptistou ewv arti h basileia twn ouranwn biazetai, (5743) kai biastai arpazousin (5719) authn.

(括号内的数字是重点的相应希腊词)

楼主和诚老前辈的翻译 “从施洗的约翰的时候直到现在，天国不断遭受猛烈的攻击，强暴的人企图把它夺去。”很正确地反映了至少以上两个英译本的中文意思.

值得说明的是中文和合本圣经是直接从希伯来或希腊原文翻译过来的,而且有的经文.例如ROMANS 8:37 “得胜有余”的译法被公认为比任何其他英译本都精确的. 因此俺觉得应该从更多方面而不是就译本的多少新旧,以及“因信称义”的教义来看这个问题.

(1) 从语义学本身来看:希腊原文arpazousin 指的是抓住或据为己有(to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly ). biazetai 指的是用力或使劲(to use force, to apply force), 二者都是中性动词.但当biazetai变成biastai时就是一个阳性动词了(using force, violent),那就是为啥有的英译本有 “强暴”意思的缘故了. 其实这里的重点应该是bia-这样一个表示生命的词首(英文bio-logy的词源). 俺觉得正因为对生命本质的理解上东西方的差别导致以上译文的看似矛盾的说法.具体的说,东方人由于儒家乐观哲学的传统把biazetai和biastai分别译为一种主动的”努力”和”得着”.而西方人由于古罗马悲剧哲学传统把biazetai和biastai分别译为一种被动地接受”遭受”和” 强暴”. 因为从希腊原文结构本身的确看不出主被动来的.

(2) 那是很有趣的对生命的洞见,但须知从福音的角度来说都是属于外邦文化的影响,以此为基础的解经或译经是站不住脚的.因此还应该从上下文和主耶酥的教导上来看这个问题.

MATTHEW 11:12是夹在一段主耶酥称赞施洗约翰的经文之间的.经文强调的是施洗约翰是比其他先知都”大得多的”(MATTHEW 11:10)旧约的最后一个先知.

俺在此想强调两点(a) 主耶酥的这个称赞是在施洗约翰的服侍非常成功时而不是施洗约翰入监遭受逼迫被斩后(MATTHEW 14:1-11). 因此这时候施洗约翰作为先知的楷模是在” 努力进入”天国而不是” 天国不断遭受” 逼迫 (MATTHEW 5:12);
(b)这段经文最后主耶酥为了说明那时代的不信将自己的生活方式与施洗约翰进行对比,并认为” 但智慧在行为上就显为是”(MATTHEW 11:19). 显然主耶酥是在称赞施洗约翰的智慧行为,即拿细耳人的沙漠生活.

(3) 当然这样解释与 “因信称义”和老前辈的理解并没冲突..只是俺觉得无论是解释为信徒主动接触天国或天国被动遭暴,这段经文中主耶酥都是通过对施洗约翰的称赞强调信心中的一种行为.当然这行为并不是修桥补路等外邦人的所谓”善行”,而是指拿细耳人服侍神的生活方式等. 用于现代的通俗说法就是禁食祷告等属灵操练.

个人见解,仅供参考.
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诚之：请看路加福音13：22-30

当进窄门（太7:13-14、21-23）
22 耶稣经过各城各乡，往耶路撒冷去，沿途教导人。
23 有一个人问他：“主啊，是不是只有很少的人得救呢？”他对众人说：
24 “你们应当竭力进窄门！我告诉你们，将来许多人要进去，却是不能。
25 等到家主起来关上门，你们站在门外叩门说：‘主啊，给我们开门！’他要回答你们：‘我不知道你们是从哪里来的。’
26 那时，你们要说：‘我们在你面前吃过喝过，你也在我们街上教导过人。’
27 他要说：‘我告诉你们，我不晓得你们是从哪里来的；你们所有作恶的人，离开我去吧！’
28 当你们看见亚伯拉罕、以撒、雅各和众先知都在　神的国里的时候，你们却被赶到外面去，在那里必要哀哭切齿。
29 从东从南，从西从北，将有人来，在　神的国里吃饭。
30 在后的将要在前，在前的将要在后。”

要努力进窄门

解经的一个原则是：解释一节经文要从上下文来解释。而解释一段经文，要从整本圣经的信息来看，不可抽离整本圣经的教训。光从这段经文 (路加福音13：22-30)来看，好像我们的努力是进入天国的保证。这就与因信称义相抵触了。但是如果放在整本圣经的亮光下，我们就发现，得救是本乎恩 (by grace) ，完全是上帝的恩典；但是，也是因着信 (through faith)。

神在他与人立的约里面 (上帝与人立约：我要作你们的上帝，你们要作为我的子民；以马内利，神与人同在；在基督里，等等描述神与人的关系的字眼)，告诉我们，得救都是上帝预定、拣选的恩典，人不可能凭着任何功劳来赚取救恩。但是在这个约里面，上帝要人作出真诚的、真实的选择 (所谓的“自由意志”)，就是以信心、悔改、委身、遵行他的话、抓住神的应许，信靠耶稣基督在十字架所成就的救赎工作。信心、悔改是人进入约、也是人留在约中所必须作的，也是上帝吩咐我们要努力操练的(圣灵会保守信徒)。但是，作完了这些，没有任何功劳，不能换取救恩；作了，只是无用的仆人。一切都是出于神的恩典。所以，耶稣说，你们要努力进窄门，是要提醒我们，不要忽略了我们当作的。律法主义是要靠守律法来赚取义，或者在神的律法之外加上一些圣经没有的，来捆绑人的良心。我们不要律法主义！但是，我们也不要成为无律法主义者。我们当以感恩的心，在每天与神同行中，遵行神要求我们遵行的律法。操练、遵行这些律法，不是要使我们变成律法主义者，而是要我们不要作无律法主义者。所有的真信徒，都在这两者间，取得一个平衡。福音派今天的确太多误解、曲解了因信称义，只看到神的爱的一面，忽略了神公义、圣洁的一面，以致于在有意无意间成了无律法主义者。

这是我们当警醒的。

candle：神的公义、圣洁,常被人怕痛要面子的私心埋葬恩典与公义圣洁是平衡的,任何一边的夸大都会扭曲了神的本貌

GuanGuan：没错，批评得很好！“不太”看重讲律法，是福音派里一个普遍的猫饼，所以，金钱奉献的时候我们经常是扣扣搜搜不情不愿，敬拜聚会的时候是拖拖拉拉，自由散漫。。。。anyway，我们却仍然很喜乐，哈，很奇怪
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诚之：抄一段书给你参考：

太11：12
The kingdom is pressing ahead with force, although violent men, such as Herod who had imprisoned John the Baptist, are trying to overcome it by force. It is not the strong and forceful who obtain the kingdom but the weak and helpless (vv. 28-30), who know their own weakness and are ready to depend on God.
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新民：马太福音11:12新民版本的中文意译

从施洗约翰到如今，天国正在轰轰烈烈、大刀阔斧、如火如荼地展开来。凡真心热切向往而倾力投靠的人就得着了。

NIV has the best translation for Matthew11:12. Here is why.

The various translations stem from the confusion about the proper voice of the Greek word "biazetai". Is it passive or middle? That is the grammatical key to the translation.

NIV renders biazetai as middle voice, thus, the Kingdom of God is forcefully advancing (by itself), not suffers from violence by others.

Another key that affirms the above point is in the context of Jesus' commenting on John the Baptist (JB). Jesus was sketching a dichotomous division between OT and NT, with JB as the last of the OT prophet who was also the forerunner of the King of the Kingdom of God (the same as the Kingdom of Heaven, see my previous post on this). Jesus was clearly not happy with the contemporary generation of his time (see verses 16-19) since the people were largely lukewarm and not very responsive to the Kingdom of God.

"From the days of John the Baptist until now (when Jesus was speaking then)", which is precisely the epoch-making junction of the cataclysmic phasing out of OT era (marked by JB) and the powerful ushering in of the NT era (marked by Jesus Christ himself), Jesus was lamenting on the disbelief and unreponsiveness of general populace to the mighty Kingdom of God. It was in this context and environ that Jesus proclaimed that "the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing". Please refer to a myriad of miracles that Jesus had done and enumerated for JB's inquiring disciples (see verses 4-6). Clearly the Kingdom of Heaven was being ushered in with unprecedented signs, wonders, and miracles done by Jesus Christ the King and Lord. No one on earth has the power to stop or impede the powerful advancement of the Kingdom of God. That is an obvious fact that Jesus was affirming.

Jesus went further to encourage people not to lose sight of this powerful phasing in of the Kingdom of Heaven, thus, "forceful men lay hold of it". Jesus implied that no one should continue to be lukewarm and unresponsive to the forcefully advancing Kingdom of Heaven, they should be forceful and lay hold of the Kingdom of God. This imperative is not at all in conflict with the biblical principle of justification by grace through faith. All must act swiftly and forcefully in response to God's urgent call to repentence and God's invitation for his Kingdom, we are to ask, seek and knock the door. We shall rush into the Kingdom of God, we must not retreat or remain inactive, disbelieving or lukewarm.

The first message that Jesus (and JB earlier) preached is a simple one liner: Repent! For the Kingdom of God is near.

Now Jesus was saying: Take notice! The Kingdom of God is forcefully advancing. Do not hesitate and come on in! Rush for and squeeze yourself into it at all cost!

Hooray! Go Kingdom of God! Hurry up while there is time.
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1314：谢谢清风，诚之，新民老师。

还有蜡烛老师的鼓励。

仅从经文的翻译角度讲，我觉得差别不在动词上，而是主语上。是信神的人努力进入？还是天国，按神的旨意，强力推进，但遭阻挡神的攻击？（新民把最后一句也改了）。
“因信称义”是我们要坚守的。但“强扭的瓜不甜”，在未能领受/感受到神的救恩的大爱之前，人，出于恐惧，会走“律法主义”。另一方面，有了圣灵的感动，却不去行，我们就得当心了。神要把这恩典也夺去，加给那“照神的旨意去行”的人。

xinmin：The key is the verb, not the subject noun.

If you know some Greek grammar, you will understand that Greek verbs have subject implied with them (such as first/second/third person singular or plural).

The verb is biazetai for Kingdom of Heaven. The noun biastai is for the second verb arpazousin. The two clauses have a conjunctive kai in between. So there is no confusion as to what and who here.

The Chinese Union Verson basically repeats the two half sentences. NIV is still the best translation.

1314：Thank you Brother. Another thing learned.
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