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博爱思牧师解经讲道:拣选(弗1:4-6)
送交者: 从上而生 2019年09月07日16:28:17 于 [彩虹之约] 发送悄悄话

Election

Ephesians 1:4–6

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

It is wonderful to be told, as Paul does tell us in the third verse of Ephesians 1, that God “has blessed us … with every spiritual blessing in Christ.” But as soon as that is said we immediately want to ask how such great blessing actually becomes ours. Paul describes it as “spiritual” blessing “in the heavenly realms.” But we are not in heaven; we are on earth. How can we possess the blessings God has for us?

We can imagine a number of wrong ways. The blessings of heaven might be thought to be possessed by force, which is what Satan tried to do. He tried to conquer heaven; he was conquered instead. We might try to earn these great blessings. But with what would we earn them? Heaven’s blessings must be bought by heaven’s coin. We possess no spiritual currency. Perhaps we can inherit them when the owner dies. Alas, the owner is the eternal God, who does not die. Perhaps God is gracious and is only waiting for us to ask him for these blessings. Even this will not work. For according to Scripture, we are not the kind of persons who, unaided by God, will even ask him for blessings. On the contrary, we despise God’s blessings. We want our will and our way and left to ourselves, we would never ask God for anything.

Then how is it that some people receive these blessings, as Paul says they do? The answer is in verses 4–6. It is the result of God’s own sovereign act, election. Paul says, “For [the Greek word is kathōs, meaning ‘just as’ or ‘because’; it links verses 4 and 3, as an explanation] he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.”

This teaches that the blessings of salvation come to some people because God has determined from before the creation of the world to give them to them—and for that reason only.

Election and Human Depravity

This doctrine is difficult for many persons, of course. But before we deal with their objections we would do well to consider the various views that people hold about election. There are three of them.

The first position is a denial of election outright. No one is saved because of some supreme hidden purpose of God, these objectors say. We can speak of grace, for God chose to reveal himself to fallen men and women and to provide a way of salvation through the death of his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That he did so proves him to be gracious. But having spoken of the grace of God in this sense, we must stop there and turn the entire situation over to human beings. God graciously offers salvation, but people must choose this salvation of their own free will. Election simply does not enter into it.

The strength of this view is that it conforms to what we all naturally like to think about our abilities. The difficulty is that, whether we like it or not, the Bible does teach this doctrine. John R. W. Stott calls election “a divine revelation, not a human speculation.” D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones refers to this teaching as “a statement, not an argument.”2 In his study of election J. C. Ryle begins by listing eleven texts (including Ephesians 1:4) that teach election in the simplest and most undeniable language and urges his readers to consider them well.

It is hard to imagine anyone doing this and then continuing to deny that election is the Bible’s teaching.

According to the second view, election is taught in Scripture but it is election based on foreknowledge. This is a mediating position, held by those who acknowledge that election is taught but who do not want to admit to a doctrine which they consider unjust and arbitrary. They would argue that God elects some to salvation and its blessings but that he does so on the basis of a choice, a response of faith, or some other good that he foresees in them.

This is patently impossible. One problem is that an election like that is not really election. In such a reconstruction God does not preordain an individual to anything; the individual actually ordains himself.

Another, greater problem is, if what the Bible tells us about the hopeless condition of man in sin is true, what good could God possibly see in anyone to cause him to elect that one to salvation? Goodness is from God. Faith is from God. If God is eliminated as a first cause of goodness or faith or a God-directed human choice (whatever it may be), how could there ever be any faith for God to foresee?

Calvin put it like this: “How should [God] foresee that which could not be? For we know that all Adam’s offspring is corrupted and that we do not have the skill to think one good thought of doing well, and much less therefore are we able to commence to do good. Although God should wait a hundred thousand years for us, if we could remain so long in the world, yet it is certain that we should never come to him nor do anything else but increase the mischief continually to our own condemnation. In short, the longer men live in the world, the deeper they lunge themselves into their own damnation. And therefore God could not foresee what was not in us before he himself put it into us.”

When people have trouble with election—and many do—their real problem is not with the doctrine of election, although they think it is, but with the doctrine of depravity that makes election necessary. 彩虹🌈一切反动派的根源👈

The question to settle is: How far did the human race fall when it fell? Did man fall upward? That is the view of secular evolutionists, that we are all getting better and better. Did man fall part way but not the whole way, so that he is damaged by sin but not ruined? That is the view of Pelagians or Arminians. It affirms that we are affected by sin but insists that we nevertheless possess the ability to turn from it and believe in Christ when the gospel is offered—by our own power. 牛大壮🐂Or did man fall the whole way so that he is no longer capable of making even the smallest movement back toward God unless God first reaches down and performs the miracle of the new birth in him? That is the view of Scripture.

The Bible says that we are “dead in … transgressions and sins” (Eph. 2:1).

It says, “There is no one … who seeks God” (Rom. 3:11).

Jesus declared, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

It is written in Genesis: “The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time” (Gen. 6:5).

What good could God possibly foresee in hearts that are dead in transgressions and sins and inclined only to evil all the time? What good could God anticipate in people who cannot come to him and do not even seek him unless he first draws them to himself? If that is the situation, as the Bible says it is, then the only way any man or woman can be saved is by the sovereign election of God by which he first chooses some for salvation and then leads them to faith.

The third position is election pure and simple. It teaches that we are too hopelessly lost in sin ever to partake of God’s great spiritual blessings on our own. Instead, God in his mercy chose us and then made his choice effectual. First he made our salvation possible by sending the Lord Jesus Christ to die for our sin. Then he made us capable of responding to him by sending the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to the truth and glory of the gospel. Thus, all the blessings we enjoy must be traced back to this sovereign electing purpose of God toward us in Jesus Christ. And Paul does exactly that in these opening verses of Ephesians.

Arminian Objections

Objections to the Bible’s teaching about election have been around for a long time, and there are many of them. Here I consider two: that election is arbitrary and that it is unjust.

When election is described as arbitrary we need to understand precisely what we are talking about. If we are basing the accusation on any supposed quality in man that is imagined to call forth election, then there is a sense in which election is arbitrary. From our perspective there is no reason why one individual rather than another should be elected. But generally that is not the way the charge is made. Generally the objector means that election is arbitrary, not from our perspective, but from God’s perspective. It amounts to saying that God has no reason for what he does. He is utterly arbitrary in picking one individual rather than another. It could as easily have been the other way around. Or God could have picked no one.

That last sentence indicates the way through this problem. For as soon as we think of the possibility of no one being saved we run against the very purpose Paul talks about in Ephesians 1:6, namely, that salvation is “to the praise of his [God’s] glorious grace.” That is, God purposed to glorify himself by saving some. Since that is so, election is not arbitrary. It has a purpose from God’s point of view.

But why one person rather than another? Why more than one? Or why not everyone? These are good questions, but it does not take a great deal of understanding to recognize that they are of another order entirely. Once we admit that God has a purpose in election, it is evident that the purpose must extend to the details of God’s choice. We do not know why he elects one rather than another, but that is quite a different thing from saying that he has no reasons. In fact, in so great an enterprise, an enterprise which forms the entire meaning of human history, it would be arrogant for us to suppose that we could ever understand the whole purpose. We can speculate. We can see portions of God’s purpose in specific instances of election. But on the whole we will have to do as Paul does and confess that predestination is simply “in accordance with [God’s] pleasure and will” (v. 5).

The second objection is that election is unjust. It is unjust for God to choose one rather than another, we are told. All must be given an equal chance. But is it possible that a person can still so misunderstand what is involved as to think in these categories? An equal chance! We have had a chance, but we have wasted it by rejecting the gospel. And it makes no difference how many “chances” are given, or to how many. Apart from God’s sovereign work no one follows Jesus. So far as justice is concerned, what would justice decree for us, if justice (and nothing but justice) should be done? Justice would decree our damnation! Justice would sentence us to hell!

It is not justice we want from God; it is grace. And grace cannot be commanded. It must flow to us from God’s sovereign purposes decreed before the foundation of the world, or it must not come at all.

Blessings of Election

Election is not the problem some have made it to be. In fact, it is actually a great blessing of the gospel. It is so in at least four areas.

1. Election eliminates boasting. Critics of election talk as if the opposite were true. They think it is the height of arrogance, something hardly to be tolerated, for a person to claim that he or she has been chosen to salvation. They suppose it is a claim to be worth more or to have done something better than other people. But, of course, election does not imply that at all. Election means that salvation is utterly of God. As Paul says, “he chose,” “he predestined,” “he has freely given,” and this is “to the praise of his glorious grace” and not to our glory.

Only election eliminates all grounds for boasting. Suppose it were otherwise. Suppose that in the final analysis a person could get to heaven on the basis of something he or she had done. In that case, that individual could claim some part (small or large) of the glory. In fact, it would be the critical part, the part that distinguished him or her from those who were not saved. That is why salvation’s blessings have to be ours by election alone.

2. Election gives assurance of salvation. Suppose it were otherwise. Suppose the ultimate grounds of salvation were in ourselves. In that case, salvation would be as unstable as we are. We might be saved one moment and lost the next. As Calvin says, “If … our faith were not grounded in God’s eternal election, it is certain that Satan might pluck it from us every minute.”

Calvin found security of salvation in the “adoption,” which verse 5 says God’s election provides for us. Adoption means that we are taken into God’s family so that we become his children and he becomes our heavenly Father. Calvin points out that when we pray to God we must call him Father, for that is what Jesus taught us to do (see Matt. 6:9). But how can we do that, he asks, unless we are sure that he really is our Father? If not, then our prayers are mere hypocrisy and the first words we utter in them (“Our Father …”) are a lie. “We must be thoroughly resolved and persuaded in ourselves that God counts us as his children. And how may that be but by embracing his mercy through faith, as he offers it to us in his gospel, and by assuring ourselves also that we are grounded in his eternal election?”

3. Election leads to holiness. A person might say, “Well, if I am elect, I suppose I’ll be saved regardless of what I do; therefore, I’ll enjoy myself and sin all I please.” Those who say that either are not elect or else are elect but are not yet regenerate. Why? Because, as verse 3 says, election is to holiness. That is, election to salvation and election to holiness go together. They are never separated. So, as John Stott says, “Far from encouraging sin, the doctrine of election forbids it and lays upon us instead the necessity of holiness.” If we are not growing in holiness, we are not elect. We are still in our sins.

4. Finally, election promotes evangelism. Some think that election makes evangelism unnecessary. “For if God is going to save certain individuals anyway,” the argument goes, “then he will save them, and there is no point in my having anything to do with it.” It does not work that way. The fact that God elects to salvation does not eliminate the means by which he calls those elect persons to faith. One of those means is the proclamation of the gospel to sinners by those who already believe (1 Cor. 1:21). The very Paul who wrote this letter was the first great missionary.

Moreover, it is only as we recognize the importance of election that we gain hope in evangelism. Think about it. If the hearts of men and women are as opposed to God and his ways as the Bible says they are, and if God does not elect people and then call them effectively by means of the Holy Spirit so that they respond in saving faith, what hope could you or I possibly have of winning them? If God cannot call effectively, it is certain that you and I cannot. On the other hand, if God is doing this work on the basis of his prior election of some, then we can speak the word of truth boldly, knowing that all whom God has previously determined to come to faith will come to him.

We do not know who God’s elect are. The only way we can find them out is by their response to the gospel and by their subsequent growth in holiness. Our task is to proclaim the Word boldly, knowing that all whom God has elected in Christ before the foundation of the world will surely come to Jesus.[1]

 



[1] Boice, J. M. (1988). Ephesians: an expositional commentary (pp. 14–19). Grand Rapids, MI: Ministry Resources Library.


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    阿古花异端:信是自己信的,自己自发信的。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (91)
    看到没有? 花异端看到信就犯病! 因信称义也是阿米念了😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (89)
      因基督创始的信而被基督称义——花徒信仰;直接将揩油徒劈死☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (117)
        阿古天天找劈就行!就象我从来没劈过你一样!:)  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (90)
        因信称义,完美劈死阿古异端病毒!病的不轻嘛:))  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (92)
        亵渎子哀嚎也没用!直接死去。:)  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (79)
    阿古坚决反对因信称义,你的信救了你!:))  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (111)
        你瞧瞧你的加大异端神学有多烂!要多烂有多烂!:) - repentant 09/09/19 (121)
        还有,不是圣灵重生信心?而是耶稣创始的?你就糊涂死吧。:)  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (111)
          答案:耶稣撒种在前,圣灵动工在后。圣灵用福音真道重生人。 - repentant 09/09/19 (142)
        哈哈,是耶稣创始信心?不是父?自己劈死自己吧。:) - repentant 09/09/19 (133)
          创世前就被父指定信耶稣的人,不是罪人,是神人! - repentant 09/09/19 (114)
          父创始前预定了具体得救者信徒,必然预定了信心。大异端! - repentant 09/09/19 (115)
        哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅 来! 认个错!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (85)
      我高兴的劈死你!:)加大异端,阿古病毒。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (94)
  Sound doctrine:拣选 - YeSuShiZhu 09/09/19 (163)
    你只会贴标签,喊口号!!  /无内容 - gaolian 09/09/19 (107)
      老苗喊的口号句句精炼,你得pay attention☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (119)
      老苗喊的口号句句精炼,你得pay attention☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (440)
    Against the Sound doctrine:拣选 - YeSuShiZhu 09/09/19 (108)
      你懂得“在基督里拣选了我们”的意思吗?就是基督也参与了拣选☝  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (142)
        在基督里面,就是服从基督,靠着基督。其他对照看去。 - repentant 09/09/19 (133)
          任何的经文经过你那双斗鸡眼一看就成了异端👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (125)
        耶稣只救父预定拣选的人=耶稣在父里面拣选了我们。异端!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (122)
          那是那节经文直白的意思,你就是那种欠揍的破烂👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (137)
            弃子而定的货! 👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (119)
              有意思,反对基督参与拣选的是你,不是我啊,傻蛋👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (107)
                强调: 创世前的预定拣选计划,只有父制定,基督不制定!☝️ - repentant 09/09/19 (101)
                  那么,“在基督里”拣选这个词组对你来说是什么意思呢?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (103)
                    你该滚了!谢谢。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (124)
                      你为什么发怒呢?你为什么变了脸色呢? 7你若行得好,岂不蒙悦 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (128)
                        因为阿古死蠢!罚你读贴20遍。你所有问题就都解决了!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (105)
                蠢货! 时空中只有耶稣拣选人。但创世前预定拣选却不是父子同工 - repentant 09/09/19 (125)
                  “在基督里”拣选这个词组对你来说是什么意思呢?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (105)
                    在基督里面,就是服从基督,靠着基督。其他对照看去。 - repentant 09/09/19 (108)
                      宝贝,任何经文的字句都是有它严密的语法的,那个词组是 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (119)
                        父全权委派让基督做主救赎,和审判!你滚吧  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (103)
                          你为什么发怒呢?你为什么变了脸色呢? 7你若行得好,岂不蒙悦 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (90)
                            我高兴的请阿古蠢货滚!谢谢:))  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (90)
                蠢货! 时空中只有耶稣拣选人。但创世前预定拣选却不是父子同工 - repentant 09/09/19 (164)
        不揍还你不行! 👈父在基督里的拣选,一定是基督去拣选☝️  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (110)
          拣选那个act发生在eternity past☝️ - 从上而生 09/09/19 (135)
            创世前基督已经被拣选,对! 在时空中降世救人却只是计划! - repentant 09/09/19 (124)
            这蠢货只信人本,不信圣经! 拿破文章当证据? 蠢!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (133)
              宝贝,那正是经文的本意,你的斗鸡眼一瞪就全乱套了 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (121)
                你继续蠢吧。我救不了你!😎  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (87)
            计划拣选= 已经拣选了。你就是个大脑残嘛!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (105)
              注:这里指时空中的拣选人还没实现,但基督是创世前定了的。 - repentant 09/09/19 (121)
        不揍还你不行! 👈父在基督里的拣选,一定是基督去拣选☝️  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (93)
        那你也欠揍! 圣经说的是父的预定,不是父子同工的预定!☝️  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (106)
          懊悔哥傻脑袋被老古扇得左右晕眩不知道要歪向何方了😁 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (115)
            阿古快去找经文支持,别怂! 😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (119)
              弗1:4☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (114)
                父创世前预定拣选了: 耶稣降世救人(拣选人) - repentant 09/09/19 (137)
                  父拣选基督降世救赎和父在基督里拣选我们被救赎一丁点都不冲突啊 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (120)
                    估计懊悔兄看到的区别在于:名单到底是谁定的? - gaolian 09/09/19 (128)
                      第2点,基本正确! 第1点是花异端的幻想。但是 - repentant 09/09/19 (144)
                        皋脸你看,我木有冤枉懊悔哥吧?他就是一个阿米念痢疾👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (119)
                          你就是加尔文一个神经病,大异端!:)两位都找死!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (105)
                        以弗所书 2:8, 中的“这/this”到底指代什么?? - gaolian 09/09/19 (126)
                          显然第2点,所有人都同意的。但是第1点呢? - repentant 09/09/19 (123)
                            信是回应圣灵的呼召,这没错。问题是。。。 - gaolian 09/09/19 (141)
                              当然不是了!福音一到,有人信有人不信。很正常。 - repentant 09/09/19 (125)
                                看电影。很形象。谢谢!!如果我被“电影”(福音)感动。。。 - gaolian 09/09/19 (110)
                                  正确。没有什么强迫一说。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (117)
                                    我也觉得,如果是神“强迫”我信的,那我信主也无法荣耀神了。  /无内容 - gaolian 09/09/19 (110)
                                      因信得救,是神的恩典,白白的赐予! - repentant 09/09/19 (98)
                                        但也有是神直接召的,似乎是强迫。 - gaolian 09/09/19 (102)
                                          但是呼召本身还不够,必须福音和圣灵去重生! - repentant 09/09/19 (79)
                                          那是耶稣的呼召,也是神工; 也有像小孩子一样谦卑的人。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (99)
                                            对,是耶稣呼召。保罗也是耶稣直接呼召!也是不可抗拒的!  /无内容 - gaolian 09/09/19 (98)
                                              思考题:扫罗像小孩子一样谦卑吗?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (99)
                                                我都说了,你也是眼瞎。保罗是被耶稣神迹显现震服! - repentant 09/09/19 (88)
                                  那是因为你“明白”电影的内容,但保罗说了没一个“明白”的☝️ - 从上而生 09/09/19 (110)
                                    耶稣救赎,全权代表父,父不在时空中亲为! 死异端眼瞎吗? - repentant 09/09/19 (110)
                                    阿古花异端散播毒素,滚一边去吧!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (115)
                                    又是弃子而工的大异端!😅 这厮要用明白砸死自己! - repentant 09/09/19 (129)
                                      撒种后,人不信福音,也不是因为不明白福音。而是不信! - repentant 09/09/19 (112)
                                    又是弃子而工的大异端!😅 这厮要用明白砸死自己! - repentant 09/09/19 (841)
                                看电影。很形象。谢谢!!如果我被“电影”(福音)感动。。。 - gaolian 09/09/19 (161)
                                牛大壮🐂自己可以回应?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (107)
                                  这蠢货,脑补王一个! - repentant 09/09/19 (93)
                                  哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅 来! 认个错!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (101)
                          指啥对阿米念都是个灾难:信或救恩都不是出于自己☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (123)
                            除了这里,说“信出于恩典”的经文在哪?  /无内容 - gaolian 09/09/19 (109)
                              要明白这个问题,你得懂得“重生”这个教义,以及重生先于信心的 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (112)
                              所以我对你们说过,若不是蒙我父的恩赐,没有人能到我这里来。 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (92)
                      太逗了😁你一点都没错,#2是懊悔哥的意思,也是阿米念的经典 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (98)
                        我的说法完全按照圣经说的,圣经说了信就了你,也说了 - repentant 09/09/19 (122)
                        看到没有? 花异端看到信就犯病! 因信称义也是阿米念了😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (102)
                        这个昏蛋,又是脑补外添圣经! 信是什么? 是顺服基督。😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (109)
                          你为什么发怒呢?你为什么变了脸色呢? 7你若行得好,岂不蒙悦 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (112)
                            就该劈死你这异端,不服?:)  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (98)
                    标题正确。计划和现实,你一塌糊涂! - repentant 09/09/19 (116)
                时空中只有耶稣在拣选人! 这就是父创世前所预定的!☝️ - repentant 09/09/19 (138)
                  父在基督里的拣选的act在创世以前已经“完成了”,醒醒,宝贝  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (154)
                    哈! 父预定拣选时空的人信耶稣,当然是创世前完成的计划!☝️ - repentant 09/09/19 (136)
                      问题是谁说了“创世前就信了,就得救了”?不是那个打稻草人的大 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (164)
                        如果父创世前就定好了名单,那么在名单上的人是必得救无疑的了。 - gaolian 09/09/19 (164)
                          对!父只是预定世人在基督里得救,要过基督这一关。 - repentant 09/09/19 (121)
                          宝贝,我们都不是机器人,我们都比机器人更坏! - 从上而生 09/09/19 (163)
                            你是说,耶和华说错了?(玛拉基3:7)Y/N?  /无内容 - gaolian 09/09/19 (190)
                              耶和华没有说错,是你理解错了👈 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (201)
                                还硬拽?一边滚去!这是父的呼召,本身就是神工!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (171)
                                  宝贝,父藉着祂的灵所做的呼召就是你一贯反对的有效呼召,又叫做 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (198)
                                    蠢!那是旧约的事!旧约父在时空还见摩西呢。  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (178)
                                      约6:44是旧约?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (197)
                                        你怎么死的都不明白?:) - repentant 09/09/19 (204)
                                        没给你解释过?那是指旧约先知律法的教导,指向耶稣! - repentant 09/09/19 (171)
                        人得救,必须看时空; 父和耶稣也不例外。没有拟好的得救名单! - repentant 09/09/19 (129)
                        人得救,必须看时空; 父和耶稣也不例外。没有拟好的得救名单!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (424)
                        哈哈! 那么怎么会有得救名单? 去救赎,等于已经救了?😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (128)
                哪里说基督参加预定了? 基督预定自己降世????👈 - repentant 09/09/19 (88)
            哈哈! 这作者被我劈死! 类推创世? 找经文去!😅  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (96)
              我看是有人醉死了☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/09/19 (104)
                脑补类推创世? 大脑补一个!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (95)
        谢谢阿古否定了: 耶稣只救父预定的人。😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (88)
      我需要反脑残外添吗! 我的立论成立,其他垃圾自然完蛋!😎  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (106)
      垃圾需要看吗? 啊?! 你一张嘴,就知道你人本的垃圾!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (94)
    你哪里是父在基督里预定得救的了?👈 - repentant 09/09/19 (117)
      耶稣只救父预定的人,完全违背圣经: 父在基督里的预定!  /无内容 - repentant 09/09/19 (125)
    分析: 父预定通过耶稣救人 - repentant 09/09/19 (115)
      类似三位一体,神性平等,分工不同 - repentant 09/09/19 (102)
      父不但预知有信耶稣的,也有不信耶稣的。对应 - repentant 09/09/19 (104)
      额外的问题: 罪人的智力和秉性属于魂吗? - repentant 09/08/19 (125)
    其最终目的就是:耶稣想救谁也得看牛大壮的脸色🐂  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (108)
      阿古,来认个错!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (121)
      耶稣自己的话(约6:44,65)让懊悔哥蛋痛😄👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (126)
        谢谢你支持我的观点! 😊  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (99)
    可见父的预定不是多么难以理解的事! - repentant 09/08/19 (138)
      有人就是喜欢做痢疾梦👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (110)
      你读主贴了吗?把你看得透透滴☝  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (122)
      预定就是说圣子圣灵一定将父预定的人妥妥滴救出来👍  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (112)
        预定就是说圣子圣灵一定将父预定的时空中的人妥妥滴救出来👍  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (120)
          一定是父在基督里预定的人,基督是拣选者。  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (92)
        谢谢你支持我的观点! 😊  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (106)
      圣灵唯独在父拣选的人心里动工:彼得就是,犹大不是  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (119)
        哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (110)
      预定就是救赎计划,耶稣实施,子不会救父没预定的人  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (122)
        哪个脑补昏蛋说的?😅  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (102)
  阿古预定编程说,又把自己砸死了事! - repentant 09/08/19 (139)
        后面的步骤就自动化了吗? 啊?! 不做工,你做梦啊?👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (137)
          因着子和灵对父的顺服,一切都无可抗拒滴成就了👍  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (128)
            啊?! 神不做工? 你做梦啊?👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (130)
              啥意思?你bipolar?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (110)
        你眼瞎啊! 预定的实现在时空中要做工! 编你个头啊? - repentant 09/08/19 (126)
          “预定”的作为早已完成,不存在在时空中实现的问题☝ - 从上而生 09/08/19 (131)
            想法=现实? 阿古的脑补大梦嘛!😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (123)
              那叫做父神善良纯全的旨意👍而后成就的步骤不再叫预定拣选了  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (132)
                我管你叫什么! 想法=现实? 阿古的脑补大梦嘛!😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (133)
                  旨意得以成全👍如何成全?父用祂的子和灵成就祂的旨意👍  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (121)
                    哈哈! 那就是说: 预定旨意还是要在时空中实现完成嘛!😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (118)
                      预定的“作为”早已完成👍我知道你痴呆不懂这个👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (110)
                        想法=现实? 阿古的脑补大梦嘛!😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (115)
                        哪个昏蛋说想法没完成了?:)) - repentant 09/08/19 (130)
                    既然阿古反驳不了,就来认个错吧!😎  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (108)
            让圣经狠狠打这厮愚蠢的脸! 预定完成什么了?👈 - repentant 09/08/19 (142)
              木有人反对这个,因为你少年痴呆,所以你无法明白这个 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (122)
                怎么就不存在预定计划时空中实现的问题了? 啊! - repentant 09/08/19 (106)
                  宝贝,我看你始终不明白啥叫预定,预定的“作为”早已完成,你懂 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (105)
            谁不分开了? 啊?! 阿古纸上谈兵就行了吗?😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (118)
          你个蠢猪头,  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (127)
            还做梦?! 👈脑补的美梦很享受嘛😄  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (126)
    怒怒怒怒,古式编程乃是酱紫滴: - 从上而生 09/08/19 (151)
        您让烂牙医屈居第二👍  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (121)
  阿古呢? 哪里去了? 认错难产吗?😎  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (129)
      你认错就好! 😊 阿古不愧是不认圣经的花异端代表!👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (132)
        我又错了,我收回昨天的认错:还是懊悔哥最蠢,烂牙医屈居第二☝  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (143)
          以后阿古认错要经常化,制度化! 明白?👈  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (126)
            懊悔哥愚蠢第一☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (116)
    这厮想肢解三位一体?👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (171)
        为啥叫“一体”?👈  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (140)
          不用你操心! 认圣经怎么说的吧!👈👈 一滩浆糊脑袋!  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (140)
      哪个昏蛋说的?😅 大脑补子一个嘛  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (125)
      哪个昏蛋说的?😅 大脑补子一个嘛  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (147)
      “救恩的次序” 乃是酱紫滴☝️ - 从上而生 09/08/19 (129)
    父在救人方面在时空中动工做了什么? - repentant 09/08/19 (188)
      阿古瞎眼不看贴就来胡说吗? 罚你读贴10遍!😎  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (150)
        啥叫“给非信徒的”?亚当的后裔有天生是信徒的?  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (143)
          有阿古这么蠢的吗? 眼瞎就再看3遍! 😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (136)
      除了上面的工,父又有做具体人的工吗? 啊?! - repentant 09/08/19 (163)
      打稻草人的胳膊累了木有?😁  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/08/19 (159)
        打断你硬拽的胳膊!😂  /无内容 - repentant 09/08/19 (158)
  懊悔哥大昏蛋和小舅舅堪忧☝️  /无内容 - 从上而生 09/07/19 (132)
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